Subtitles section Play video Print subtitles I am angry, confused, hurt, disappointed with church and government leaders because they do not accept me as natural, equal, worthy ... They don't accept you as natural. Is that true? Let's do The Work. They don't accept you as natural, is that true? Yes. They don't accept you as natural. Can you absolutely know that it's true that they don't accept you as natural? Based upon statements. - Is that a yes or a no? We've been here before. Contemplate. You know, a theory hits your head and you swear to it and then you vote it. I'm asking you to consider, they don't consider you as natural. Can you absolutely know that it's true that they don't consider you as natural? No. And for some of you, the answer might be yes. But your answer is the one that counts. And no matter what it is, you just keep moving. There are only four questions. Two to go. How do YOU react when you believe this thought? I feel hopeless. I become angry. I become confused. I resist. Imagine your life without the thought 'They don't accept you as natural'. Light. Carefree. Natural? Natural. You're good. Well, I've got a little experience going for me here. Ok, so, they don't consider you to be natural. Turn it around. I don't accept me as natural. So, I want to know what about you is not natural in your opinion. This really is coming out of denial if there's any in there at all. When I think about it, about what causes stress, the feelings of the challenges and struggles of the gay man seems not natural in the sense of this fight to be accepted. So that seems - Unnatural. Yeah. Why are you defending who you are is the question. It's unnatural, I hear from you. So, why are you defending it? Are you a gay man? - Yes. Thank you. And what is not okay about that? What is unnatural about that in your opinion? Your opinion. The stress that comes with um ... - Believing that other people should accept you? Yeah. I could shift this to places, it would just cut to the chase. But if you trust that Judge-Your-Neighbor Worksheet, it will hit every single thing. It will just, I call it checkmate. The Work is checkmate and that Judge-Your-Neighbor Worksheet is checkmate. If you've filled it in. So, give me an example of 'I don't accept me as natural'. If you're in the habit of defending gay men, that is a difficult question for you and a very important one. Where is that you consider, as a gay man, you consider you not to be natural? There are a lot of gay men that are homophobic. In fact, a lot. Oh, honey. It's just all these visions from since I'm little of how that's just confirmed ... ... of this resistance and fighting. What I feel to be natural. Okay. I mean it, god it's so right-to-the-core. Oh god the countless amounts of pressure and stress. From my father to growing up in Montana where you ... ... gotta be captain of the football team, you gotta be good at sports ... ... you gotta date the cheerleaders and you gotta go hunt and kill big animals ... And uh, and I work so hard to put on this, just this masculine image ... and girls in the church that repeatedly said, "It's unnatural" and how I've lived that for so long ... ... and, as much as I say I'm natural, how badly I judge the gay culture so much and I separate myself ... I look at it as so unnatural that I don't even involve myself in it. I don't date because I'm good, I say ... Oh, God ... so, that's a start. Homophobic. That's, oh, bizarre. All that defense was just to convince yourself. Now, where is it that you consider you unnatural as a gay man? I don't feel like I fit into the stereotype and I fight, I resist so much the stereotype. And I feel like if I get into the stereotype that I've become what everyone ... not everyone, those examples in my life have told me not to be. So, another example of where you consider yourself, as a gay man, unnatural? Um, so, uh, sometimes I feel less of a man that I get labeled a lot as "girls' night out". 'Girls are getting together, let's go'. What group of people say that to you, Oh, family and friends. So, you be them and I'm going to be you — with a little gay pride. So, you're my parents... Um, you know, me and the boys are going to go out hunting and, um, get together and do manly things... ...and you can go hang out with the girls and go shopping, how's that? Uh, you know, actually, I do prefer that. You're always thinking of me. You're always considering who I am, honoring who I am as a gay man. You give me the option of not having to do those things I really don't care about. Which shows me how much you care and listen to me and see me and understand me. I'm much more comfortable this way and I appreciate your caring. So, I just bought a new house and I need an interior decorator ... and although you're color blind, you're gay, so why don't you come decorate my house? Well, you know, actually ... okay, I'm stepping out of the role, now, okay? Are you good at that? No! Okay, so now I'm back in role. Unless they want black and white and gray. I mean, I'm fantastic at that. Well, that's why I was asking, you know? So, actually, I'm colorblind and that's not my skill. But I can look around. You know, I have a network of people going. I can ... Call the gay hotline. Well, actually, I can just call friends. Some of them are gay, some of them aren't gay. I could just say, "I'm not good at that. I don't have that talent but, if I run into someone that does ... ... I'll have them contact you." Um, you know, I know you're single a lot ... ... but maybe if you were to get in shape and have a six pack, you'd probably have a boyfriend and ... ... after two weeks, you could move in together. Well, thank you. Thank you. And I'll think about it. Isn't that what you do? Yeah, yeah. I love this world. You know, it's a world where there are ... people aren't prejudiced ... ... where people respect who I am and care about me. They offer me jobs even ... whether I have the skill for it or not. Good. It's not that I'm good, I'm just not blind. So far, all this prejudice is coming from you. Yeah, yeah. That's really good to know. Yeah. And I've had glimpses of that and just pushed it away. Well, I love that you have a little experience in how to deal with your own mind here. Can you find another Turnaround? I don't accept them as natural. So, I don't accept non-gay people as natural? And I don't accept gay men as natural. They're having fun and you're home criticizing. It's unnatural. I am so backwards in many ways. So, growing up, your father, I think made you go out for football was your ... Yeah. Okay. He made you go out for football, is that true? Um, at the time, it seemed, if I think about it now, that I ultimately chose, but it was ... Ultimately? I chose. Yes, you did. Yes. - And you did it because you wanted something in return. What was it? Approval. - Yeah, how are you doing? Oh, God, now I should be captain. And make out with that girl. It's natural for a gay man to make out with a girl, for your father's approval. That is ridiculous. Just lists and things that I've done to change to be natural. And that is why it's such a perfect set-up: Sooner or later, it starts to add up that you're not going to get the approval that you're seeking. And, when you get that, you come to see that you've already got it. Can you find an example for that turnaround? I don't accept them as natural. Give me an example of where you don't experience gay men as natural. When they are out there doing the thing you don't approve of. I, it appears to me a lot of the time that some might even get caught up in this image of what 'gay' means and I find myself ... You mean like you've been doing all your life? Yep. And I know it's different, but ... Yeah and, um, it just seems so inauthentic yet I've been inauthentic. You have your way. Everyone has their way. Everyone's doing the best that they can. - Yeah. It's not easy. - Yeah. - But, it's more difficult not to. Absolutely. Can you find another turnaround? I see them as natural. As a gay man, I'm seeing me as natural. So, what is natural about being a gay man? It's the way I am. It's just me. That's one. I get a lot of compliments on my hair. That's two. Let's go with another example. Anyone gay in the audience or has a gay family member or friends? An example of what is natural about being a gay man. My son and his partner are very, very loving to each other. And that seems ... Natural. Wish I had babies from him — grand babies. But, you know, they love each other and they're kind to each other. That's more than a lot of people I know are in their relationships. I have gay friends — real friends — they have children. They're theirs. And it could be just not your son's desire. Yeah. But you can campaign. Oh, I'll keep that in mind. You know, grandmother rights. They don't go far. Don't expect anything, but ... I would bet that you didn't wake up one day and choose to be gay any more than I chose to be heterosexual. Yes. Right? I don't choose who I'm attracted to. I'm attracted to who I'm attracted to and, to me, that's as natural as it gets. What have you heard against that — being gay? It's against God, it's evil, um you know, it's Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve, um ... Exit only. Just some of those. So, so, one way to lose your homophobia is to put all those things on a list and Work every single one of them. Until you just, you love yourself and everything about you. When that's accomplished, you love us too. No matter how silly we used to look to you, you understand. Yes. I love men and men's bodies, so why wouldn't you? She's got a good point there. Got a really good point there. My family and I grew up in the same type of situation I'm sure that you did ... and my brother and his partner have been together for thirty years. and it's kind of funny because me and my two sisters are all divorced ... and my brother is the only one that has a long-term relationship. So, I ... - How unnatural. So, I think, I think the problem is is you're natural because you're living who you want to be ... ... and it's unnatural for us to expect anything different from you. Mmm. Good stuff. So, what is one of the things you have heard about gay men that has been like a knife in your heart? Um, it's something that I revisit a lot and, um ... ... the relationship has changed a lot with my mother but she made a comment once and, um ... I'm the youngest, so I watched my brothers and sister, you know, go through so many mistakes that they made ... ... according to my parents, and then my mom one time said, she's like ... "After everything that your brothers and sister have put me through, after everything they've done ... ... from I mean everything, um, the biggest disappointment would be if one of my kids were gay. ... and I was all: [demonstrates with facial expression]. Well, we're not having that conversation today. And, it's that same thing that I hear from so many different aspects of 'disappointment' ... ... or 'not accepting' or ... So, she said, "That would be the biggest disappointment." ? Mmm hmm. Okay, you hear that? That's what she said. Now, who believed it? I did. So, where was the problem? Me. That's magical. Yeah. - It's like: she said it; that's not a problem. The moment you believed it, it became a problem. So, what your mother said, is that a problem? I just realized how much I make my mom suffer because of that comment. To this, oh, god ... ... like fifteen years. I say that I love my mom, I'm mom's little baby and when she calls me I get irritated, every time she calls me. I just, I bet it's that. I think you're right. In fact she, she says, "You're my baby" and she means it with all her heart and you remember that one, the moment you believed what she said. she didn't believe it: she found out you were gay and you're her baby! But you believed it, and in that moment, hell is created. And separation from your mother, she's doing fine. You're the one with a problem. Yeah. Does she sound disappointed to you? No. She's almost too overbearing with ... She talks about me way too much to too many people and I hear about it. Yeah, she's sure disappointed. Yeah. Okay sweetheart, so, the most painful thing, like the knife in your heart, what's that?