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  • - Hello, everybody.

  • This is Jack from tofluency.com,

  • and today, Rodrigo and I are going to have a debate.

  • - A debate? - Yeah.

  • We are going to talk about, and we're going to debate

  • who is better out of Messi and Ronaldo.

  • And this is an opportunity for you

  • to listen to natural English,

  • and I will leave all the phrases that we use

  • in the description, too,

  • but first, Rodrigo is one of my good friends

  • here in Nashville, and he is on the soccer team, too,

  • so we talk soccer a lot, we play together,

  • and we often talk about Ronaldo versus Messi.

  • - I think anybody who enjoys soccer has this conversation.

  • At least for our generation,

  • they're the natural, who's one, who's number two?

  • - Yeah.

  • - I'm obviously, as we've talked about ofen,

  • a big Ronaldo fan, and I think Messi's great,

  • and he's been really good,

  • but I don't think he overcomes Ronaldo.

  • - Yeah, whereas I'm a big Ronaldo fan,

  • but I see Messi as a level above.

  • - I wonder, though, oftentimes most people,

  • I think, think that, and I think it's also

  • has a lot to do with Ronaldo's personality.

  • - That is one thing, so--

  • - Which I don't think should be taken into account.

  • - I agree.

  • I agree, I think 'cause people perceive Ronaldo

  • to be quite single-minded,

  • quite selfish on the pitch at times,

  • whereas Messi is more reserved.

  • He's seen more as a team player, I feel.

  • - I think he just doesn't have very much personality.

  • - No.

  • - Like Ronaldo has personality,

  • he wears his emotions on his sleeve.

  • He's happy, everybody knows it.

  • He's sad or angry, everybody knows it as well.

  • And I don't know, I guess personally enjoy that.

  • I wanna feel that energy or that excitement.

  • - Yeah, he does bring that.

  • - For sure. - Yeah.

  • - And I think the other thing is

  • what do you do outside of the club matters a lot

  • because especially when you play at these super clubs,

  • you're surrounded by so much talent,

  • and when you get into that conversation

  • of who's the greatest of all time,

  • or who's the greatest of our generation, they're that good,

  • if you're gonna have them in that conversation,

  • they really need to raise the level of play around them,

  • and be able to shine in less than ideal circumstances.

  • - So do you place Ronaldo and Messi

  • above players such as Zidane?

  • - It's a little challenging because Zidane,

  • I only watched him a little bit in the '98 World Cup,

  • which is kind of on the backend of his career,

  • and I was eight years old,

  • and so it wasn't like I had a ton of exposure to him.

  • But I would say that I would,

  • maybe a better comparison for me is Beckham.

  • 'Cause I saw him play live one time

  • when he was still with Real Madrid,

  • and I would say, yeah, I would raise them above that

  • because I think they've had a greater influence on the game,

  • and of course, I'm biased.

  • I'm way more familiar with them.

  • - Yeah, and their stats are just

  • out of this world. - Insane.

  • - You can't compare their stats to any other player

  • 'cause it's just head and shoulders above

  • what others have done recently.

  • So, especially since,

  • 'cause Ronaldo, when he first came to England,

  • he was very flashy.

  • - Yes.

  • - And people talked about how he had no end product.

  • He couldn't provide that final cross,

  • he couldn't score a goal.

  • And then, there's an interview with Gary Neville,

  • do you know Gary Neville?

  • - Yep.

  • - And he talked about,

  • he just came back over the summer,

  • and he was a completely different player.

  • He was an animal, and that's when he started

  • to just score all the time and provide goals.

  • - I think that's one of my favorite things about Ronaldo

  • and why I really think it puts him above Messi is

  • Ronaldo has shown that he can change

  • and adapt his style of play to what's needed

  • or expected on him in different teams

  • and in different stages of his career.

  • To talk about Ronaldo, he used to be the speed guy,

  • and now he's become the clinical finisher,

  • now that he's lost some of that speed.

  • And we've seen him have incredible careers

  • in Portugal, England, Spain, and even now in Italy.

  • That's really impressive,

  • and not to mention everything he's done with Portugal,

  • and at the national level,

  • I think that's where you even have a bigger separation

  • because I think there are less big-name players

  • on the Portuguese soccer team

  • than there are on the Argentinian soccer team,

  • and yet, the difference of quality

  • and what they mean to those teams is completely different.

  • - Whereas I see the,

  • 'cause Ronaldo has done it at the international level.

  • He won the European championships.

  • He did come off injured early on in that game, but--

  • - But that is actually I think one of his greatest,

  • arguably one of the most important things.

  • If you saw him that game,

  • he was the most passionate player on the field,

  • even though he was on the bench.

  • And that was incredible.

  • - Yup.

  • I know what you mean, he was cheering the team on.

  • He was passionate behind them.

  • - His influence was still felt on the game.

  • - But that team, that Portuguese team was quite negative,

  • and they built a very solid team structure

  • where Ronaldo put on the finishing touches,

  • whereas I feel with Messi and Argentina,

  • it's just been a mess over the last six, seven years,

  • where they try and put in all these players

  • without any type of strategy in place.

  • - Agreed wholeheartedly,

  • but then, how many times have you heard these articles

  • or things where he made this, Ronaldo has this new coach,

  • I forgot his name right now,

  • Sarri I think, right? - Yeah.

  • - Sarri went and talked to Ronaldo ahead of time

  • to quote, unquote get signed off on the move, and why?

  • Because Ronaldo's not just gonna sit by

  • and let things happen around him.

  • He's gonna be very aggressive and being like,

  • no, if I'm on this team, we're going to do well,

  • and so it's almost like Sarri had to make sure

  • he had buy-in from Ronaldo 'cause if Ronaldo had agreed

  • to whatever Sarri was doing,

  • the rest of the team's gonna follow.

  • You never hear about this from Messi.

  • The chaos that's happened on the Argentinian national team,

  • could you envision that being the case if Ronaldo was there?

  • There's no way.

  • - Oh, I think it would be.

  • - He would just say, screw the coach,

  • and just say, all right, you guys listen to me.

  • This is how we're playing.

  • And people would listen!

  • And they do what he says!

  • - I feel that's a hypothetical there.

  • You couldn't ever test.

  • I know I've seen this so many times over the years

  • with Argentina, where they don't have any strategy.

  • They'll just put out their three players up front,

  • and it's just chaos.

  • It seems like they're always playing scared, that team.

  • From being from South America,

  • you know the history with Argentina.

  • - I mean, it is crazy.

  • I mean, they've always been one of the giants there,

  • but a very underperforming giant.

  • - All right, so let's just talk about them

  • as individual players,

  • and we look at different parts of the game

  • and say which one is better.

  • - Okay.

  • - So I'm gonna start with an easy one for Ronaldo.

  • Heading.

  • - Oh, well.

  • (both laugh)

  • When you've got, what, six to eight inches of height,

  • yeah, you better win that one.

  • - He is one the best headers of the ball I've seen.

  • - Clinical.

  • - He is incredible.

  • Although there is a clip

  • of Real Madrid and Barcelona playing,

  • and Messi out-jumping Ronaldo.

  • Everyone likes to look at that.

  • - [Announcer] Messi.

  • - Okay, so heading without a doubt.

  • This is an interesting one, finishing.

  • - I would probably...

  • Ooh, that is a tough one.

  • - Who would you trust with a one-on-one

  • with the goalkeeper more?

  • 'Cause to me, that's easy.

  • - Yeah, I would probably say Messi.

  • - Yeah.

  • - Yeah, I don't know if I'd say it's easy,

  • but I would say, yeah, I would default to Messi,

  • saying being the better finisher.

  • - Free kicks?

  • - I don't think either of them

  • are particularly great at that.

  • - Messi last season.

  • His stats were unreal.

  • - But I mean, that was like an aberration a little bit,

  • wouldn't you agree?

  • - Well, it might be the new normal.

  • You never know. - Fair enough.

  • - I'd say penalties, Ronaldo.

  • Messi has this habit of missing them.

  • - For the national team in big moments.

  • - Well, we'll have to look at that.

  • He misses a lot of penalties

  • for Barcelona in the regular season.

  • - A lot of the reasons they've been knocked out

  • has been his inability to finish penalties

  • when they've been needed to at international competitions,

  • but that's a different-- - Mhm, yup.

  • - But yeah, so penalties, Ronaldo's better, yeah.

  • - I don't like the term natural ability,

  • but in terms of--

  • - Well, I think natural ability, it's Messi.

  • - Yeah.

  • Well, in terms of who has the most amount of grace

  • and flair and skill when they're running with the ball.

  • - Oh, it's Ronaldo, I think.

  • - Really?

  • - I think so.

  • - Oh, that's where I really disagree.

  • - Because I think Ronaldo, I don't know.

  • I think, well, it's running with the ball.

  • In confined spaces, Messi looks better 'cause he's smaller.

  • He can maneuver, but if you're talking

  • running with the ball, onto the ball,

  • I feel like Ronaldo looks way smoother.

  • - Well, just-- - He's got the size,

  • that stride.

  • - Ronaldo has that strength and power when he runs,

  • and you don't want him running directly at you,

  • whereas Messi, I mean, it's very rare

  • that you'll see a Ronaldo goal

  • where he takes on six players.

  • - Right.

  • - He'll take on one and smash it in the corner,

  • whereas Messi, there are so many goals,

  • where he's like dink, dink, dink, dink, dink,

  • megs. - Correct.

  • Right, but that's what I would just say is differing,

  • and that's maybe just how you're defining it is

  • running with the ball is very different

  • than dribbling in confined spaces,

  • which is Messi's, one of his best strengths probably.

  • - Okay, yeah, definitely.

  • - But if you think somebody running onto the ball,

  • that never happens for Messi almost.