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- Hello, and welcome to Close Up
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with the Hollywood Reporter Actresses.
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I'm Matthew Belloni.
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I'd like to welcome our guests today.
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Saoirse Ronan.
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Allison Janey.
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Mary J Blige.
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Emma Stone.
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Jennifer Lawrence.
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And, Jessica Chastain.
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Let's get started.
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Obviously the headlines in Hollywood this year
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are incidents of alleged harassment
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after incidents of alleged harassment in the industry.
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Some people believe that the entertainment industry
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will never be the same.
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I'm curious about your thoughts on this
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and whether all of these stories coming out
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are going to lead to actual change,
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and we'll start with Jessica.
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- I hope the entertainment industry will never be the same.
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I mean, if you look at Louis B Mayer and Fatty Arbuckle
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and Jack Warner, you read Shirley Temple's book,
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you find out what happened to her when she was a child,
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there is a history of abuse against women in our industry,
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and it's never been addressed,
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and I think I'm devastated by all the stories
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that have come out because its heartbreaking,
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but at the same time I feel hopeful
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because we're not ignoring it anymore.
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It's painful for change, but it's needed.
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It was needed many many years ago,
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but what's coming out now there's abuses
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not just in terms of gender, but there's so much
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that needs to change about Hollywood,
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and I think that the industry will become extinct
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unless we show a more modern version
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of the world that we're presented with.
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- Do you feel a sense of vindication almost
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that these stories are being told?
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- Yeah, I think that the big misconception though
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is that this is just in the entertainment industry.
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I mean, once again the entertainment industry
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is the stage at which you can see
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the inner workings and the problems
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that are all over the world.
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The only reason why there's so much focus
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on the entertainment industry
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is because these people are famous.
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If a flight attendant comes forward about a pilot
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it doesn't end up in the news 'cause nobody knows about it.
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That doesn't meant that there is less sexual abuse
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going on anywhere else in the world,
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in any other place of work,
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but fortunately we're starting the conversation now.
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- Do you agree with that,
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or is there something specific about being an actress
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where there is a power dynamic
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and someone is in a position to make or break a career
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and to exploit an actress in that way?
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- Well, I think what she's referencing is definitely true.
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We see these people.
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Maybe they grab headlines in a different way,
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or what we do grabs headlines in a different way,
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but no, I think it's a pandemic.
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It's through every industry.
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There's a really amazing article that Brit Marling wrote
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that was essentially saying if we were paid equally,
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if women were paid equally in every industry
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this would not be occurring.
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I mean, this is something that women have to,
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have had to fit into these different boxes
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for so many years just to get work,
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and if these things are happening,
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and they bring them to people's attention
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they're much more likely to be fired
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or to be dismissed in any industry
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than a man in a more powerful position,
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so I think that it's a huge conversation
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for our industry, certainly.
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But, I would hope that this is only the tipping point
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for every industry for us to discuss equal pay
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for equal work for women across every industry
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because that's been a change that we've needed
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since the beginning of time and industry.
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- Yeah.
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(all laugh)
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- Have these stories coming forward,
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have they caused you to look at things
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throughout your career maybe with a different light
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and re-evaluate some of the interactions you may have had?
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- I feel very fortunate that I've never experienced
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any kind of harassment at all.
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The only reason why I can think that is
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I'm you know, five-foot-15,
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and my career didn't start until later, 38,
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and my life was started in the theater.
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I didn't experience this, and yet I was always aware
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of the casting couch.
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That was just something that I thought
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women had to navigate growing up in the business.
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Or, I thought, "Well, someday I'll probably have to do that,
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"but I know how I would."
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I always felt prepared in my mind
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if that were to occur what I would do,
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but it's exciting to think of a time
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where kids growing up won't know what that is,
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that that will be a thing of the past,
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and there won't be any more abuse of power.
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That's the most upsetting thing to me
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is people who abuse their positions,
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people that people look up to,
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artists who are revered, and of course young people
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coming in are gonna look to them.
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It's just one of the worst crimes I think
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to abuse your influence and power in a negative way,
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and it's exciting to think of our culture changing,
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and it's high time.
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- Have any of the stories that have come out
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been especially resonant to you as an actress
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who has grown up, essentially, in the industry?
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- Yeah, I mean I have to say
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that for me I was the same as Allison.
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I've never experienced that.
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I think I was very lucky that I was protected
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from a lot of that.
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I never was really exposed to what went on at parties.
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I was never left on my own with anyone.
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My mom and dad were always around,
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so I was very protected in that way.
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I mean, every story that's come out
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has so much gravity to it, has so much weight to it,
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and I think it would be wrong to escalate
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one over the other, but I think just because
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you can actually hear it happening.
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The one with that Italian, was she an actress?
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- She was a model and actress.
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- [Saoirse] She was a model, actress.
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- The Harvey Weinstein story.
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- And, what was incredible about it
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was that she was brave enough to go back the next day
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because she knew that this was important
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for this to come out, and the fact that she put herself
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in that position again and made herself so vulnerable,
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and still nothing was done about it.
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- Yeah.
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- And, that's the really disappointing thing
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about all of this.
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They've had all of this shit basically
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on all of these men and women for the last few years,
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but they haven't done anything with it.
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It's just been swept under the carpet.
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- Do you think that the culture will change?
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Perhaps people will be less inclined to do these things
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because of fear, but do you think the culture
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of the leverage of power and culture of abuse will change?
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- I hope eventually.
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I think it's gonna be a while.
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I think it's so deeply ingrained, unfortunately, socially.
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I don't even know.
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If you think about mothers with their sons,
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obviously it's not coming from their parents.
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It's this social proof of some way of your masculinity,
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and also what Emma was saying is so true
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that until we're equal in every way
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then how can you expect us to be respected verbally
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if we're not being respected in every other way?
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- Yeah, whenever you have one demographic
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that's in charge of the livelihood of another
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you're gonna have abuses of power.
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I mean, for me, I'm really interested
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in your point of view on this
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in terms of coming into the industry,
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being in music, now being in film.
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- In the industry, like her, I never had that problem.
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I was always a tomboy and one of the guys,
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and I feel really sad for the women,
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but I'm happy that they're free.
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Everyone that's coming out, I'm happy that they're free
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because they had to hold onto a secret
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that they ma have seen shrinks for
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for years and years and years, so I'm just happy for them,
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and I believe that things will change
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because this is making other women say,
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"Me too, me too, me too," and that's why it just
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keeps happening every day, every day
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because people are tired of sitting around
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with that secret and that thing that holds them prisoner,
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so I think it will change things
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because people don't want to be in bondage anymore,
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women anyway.
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Women have been going through this
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since they were children, you know?
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As a child I went through it
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all the way up until adulthood,
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but when I got in the music business I never had it
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because I went through so much of it in childhood.
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- You said you were a tomboy.
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Do you think you made that decision
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to shield yourself from it?
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- I did because I've been through so much as a child
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and a teenager.
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Not that I was a guy, I just wore baggier jeans
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and Timberlands and hat turned backwards,
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so I won't be so revealing.
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It took me a very long time to even
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wear makeup and tight clothes
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because I had been through so much,
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and that that I've been through has been a secret.
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I exposed it on Oprah, but there's so much more
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that people don't know, so like I said
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I'm happy that these women are hopefully free
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because it hurts, and you have to go through this,
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women all over the world, like she said.
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- That's another thing as well
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is that these people who went through it
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then had to get up the next day and still go to work,
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or they've had to see these men for years
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and shake their hand and take photographs with them
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or get on a flight and work with them, whatever it is.
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I mean, imagine how much strength that would have taken
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to do that every day.
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- Because I'm someone who holds a lot
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and gets really nervous to speak a lot of the time,
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we have to also recognize that there are so many women
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who haven't told their stories yet,
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who aren't comfortable to share,
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and this is a deeply, and I know this
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is a very millennial word, but it's a very triggering time
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for a lot of women too to see these stories
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come out one after the other
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whether they have stories to share or not
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about assault or harassment.
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It's a very difficult thing to watch.
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I also want to say for women
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I feel so much compassion for those
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who haven't shared their stories yet,
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who are still getting up and going to work every day,
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they're with their abuser, or have had abuse in their past,
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and who are not ready to say anything.
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I think that putting pressure on women to share it,
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if you're not saying it now then you're complicit
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in this evil that's occurring isn't fair also.
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I think we need to have a lot of compassion
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and patience that more and more stories might come out
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in a slow way and in a way that feels comfortable
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to people who have been victims of this kind of trauma.
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- It's interesting.
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We haven't seen as many people in the music industry
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come forward as in the film and TV industry,