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  • - Mary، why do some governments succeed where others fail؟

  • - It's a very good and a very Important question

  • And I think about it a lot With my fellow elders

  • Nelson Mandela brought this group Of elders together

  • And we constantly look at failed states، States in conflict

  • Visit، and try to analyze

  • I also have another reference point Which you touched on

  • I've been on the board and the prize comity Of the Mo Ibrahim foundation

  • Since it's started we're like 10 years 2016 is our 10th year

  • And the Ibrahim index Covers 15 years

  • Because we did 2 years at a time

  • And it covers 4 main areas

  • Safety and rule of law، which covers Rule of law، accountability، personal safety

  • And national safety

  • And then participation and human rights Which covers participation، rights and gender

  • And sustainable economic opportunity which is Public management، business environment

  • Infrastructure and rural sectors

  • And then human development which is Welfare، education and health

  • So it's a broad mix

  • And what we notice is first of all That unfortunately the countries at the bottom

  • Of the 54 African countries Are countries in conflict

  • That's very simple، it's very clear With Somalia at the bottom

  • Secondly، if countries don't have A good balance between those 4

  • They may be likely to have difficulties

  • And interestingly، that happened During the Arab spring

  • There were strong economic development To some extent

  • But not participation in rights

  • And you had the flare Up of the Arab spring

  • And we could have predicted it We didnbut we could have

  • Afterwards when we looked To the data

  • We said we should've been Able to message that

  • - Gebril، why didn't this region Forecast the Arab spring

  • If you believe it felt juicy And how did governors play a part؟

  • - Well، first of all I would like to extend my gratitude and thanks for the invitation

  • I would say that because of change of paradigm That took place by the end of the 80s early 90s

  • We live in a completely new world

  • Ironically enough، societies all over the world Became more globalized

  • While governments and states، Most of them are a little national

  • And this is really ironic And funny at the same time

  • If you look at Europe today because of the wave of immigration، immigrants، refugees

  • They are taking nationalities

  • And don't rule out that one of the possibilities

  • Like this you know

  • On the other hand، Arab societies Are getting connected

  • Because the name of the game In the global world is connectivity

  • With the new expectations Specially the youth

  • They have more skills More expectations، more dreams

  • The governments faced those uprisings With the old tools، from the industrial age

  • Whether their security systems، Their education systems

  • Their work force Everything is related to the past

  • Therefore، you have 2 options

  • Governments that do not adapt Themselves to this globalized age

  • They're going to fail

  • Governments that are not responsive enough To those new dreams of global societies

  • I would say، or global individuals in those societies With those new dreams

  • They're going to fail

  • So the name of the game is Responsiveness in the past

  • Where more inclusiveness Is at heart of everything

  • And more adaptation and realignment Of the global society

  • - In your experience Why do governments fail؟

  • - In my experience I think that Every government fails sometimes

  • And have some success some other times

  • No government can pretend having only successes

  • To try، and try again

  • Of course success depends very much on The legitimacy that one government may have

  • If you have، as Mahmud Gebril Has mentioned it very rightly

  • If you have strong institutions coming from history If you have a very cohesive society

  • It's of course a very strong help

  • Because you can support your work On very very strong tools

  • But the legitimacy is the key Because if you are able to put forward a strong vision

  • A long term vision، with strong institutions And if you have، you are able to mobilize

  • Public consent

  • Then of course reforms adaptations Are a lot easier

  • Even a refugee crisis can be solved

  • But the big problem is you are very often Not able to fulfill the demand of the people

  • On a short term basis Which is what they ask

  • Look at what happened in Germany for example

  • Angela Merkel has been having A very human reaction to the refugee crisis

  • But of course، problems are there And problems are not easy to solve

  • And the numbers are so high One million people coming just in the last year

  • This is a huge burden for the German society Even if they have faced reunification

  • And have the courage to go for reunification From one that one other

  • One million refugees is of course A big big problem

  • So you cannot have answers On a short term basis

  • And it's difficult to explain With the media pressure

  • With the social networks pressure

  • Very difficult to find answers just in One day، one week، one month

  • So it takes time، it takes more legitimacy And also it takes new tools

  • Because new technologies، new challenges You need to adapt constantly yourself

  • So there's not just one answer At the time

  • You cannot just say I have a success today

  • And I will be successful tomorrow

  • No you need constantly to change And work harder

  • - Been more than 14 minutes then to sort it out Is that what you're telling us right؟

  • Okay، only got 14 minutes We've got less than 30 now

  • Miss Younes، your thought

  • - Yeah I'd like to go، move forward Rather than go backwards

  • I think there's a pending danger Which was shake the all the governments

  • Not just few governments

  • This is the concentration of wealth The way their wealth world is moving

  • The information given to us today 62 people in the world، own more wealth

  • Than the bottom half of the population

  • 6 years back، the number was 388 people Owning more than half the wealth of the population

  • So this number is decreasing And wealth is accumulating

  • And we are in the way where one person Will own more than half the wealth of the world

  • This is the direction we're going

  • Even presidential candidate in the USA Barney Sanders، repeatedly saying

  • One tenth of 1% of the US population Own 80% of the wealth of the United States

  • So if you go by country by country This will be a threat

  • Because all we talk about human rights Democracy، freedom of the speech

  • Everything will be threatened If we cannot stop this

  • This is a global consensus is needed That we cannot allow this concentration to continue

  • 1% of the population of the world Owning 99% of the wealth of the world، today

  • Tomorrow، it will be worse

  • So that's the danger that we have to see If we have to protect our government

  • If we have to protect our civilization We cannot allow this to continue

  • - Whatever the existential pressures Or challenges are Mary

  • Muhammad Yunus here pointed out that Inequality is something that the government

  • Can do something about

  • What about exclusion، a lack of Social justice، a lack of trust

  • Consensus and a collective aim for a country How do we rate these things on where to look

  • At how you achieve a successful government؟

  • - Well first of all I do agree with Yunus about the gross inequality

  • which is worsening and I think it's really undermining

  • legitimacy and credibility of the governments and I think

  • we have to be conscious of that and it has to be addressed

  • - who's going to address that؟ - well، I think it has to be

  • addressed country by country but also at a level of you know

  • The need to understand that cooperate power

  • when it becomes power to determine who will win elections

  • and it's close to that now just abiding of elections

  • intense money being put in to support candidates

  • despite all the problems in the united states

  • at least there's some evidence of a vibrant response by citizens

  • and I think that's to be welcomed but back to your point

  • about the inconclusiveness I think we have to remember

  • that basically business was about a social compact

  • business got the right to incorporate on the bases of you know

  • contributing to human welfare basically and I think we need to remember that

  • we need to have gender equality and I m very pleased to see

  • constant progress in this region particularly in the U.A.E on that

  • because that's part of inclusion also you know LBT rights

  • the gay and lesbian rights I think these are an important

  • Part of generating real social stability and social contract

  • I m reminded a little bit We were talking about it earlier

  • the way in which we got agreement on climate in Paris

  • was because the process was more inclusive

  • the smallest countries felt they were being listened to

  • the smaller states the least developed countries

  • and the target set of well below 2 degrees of warming

  • and striving for 1.5 was a better target that we ve

  • had up till now and will save countries

  • from going underwater will keep African countries

  • from being so buffeted by draught and flooding

  • - that it undermines government - at the beginning of this

  • there were a number of things that government's can't control

  • but perhaps I should sort of row back on that

  • to a certain extent because climate change

  • is something governments can control، and I want to ask

  • around the palace just how important you think that is

  • to a successful government in the years ahead

  • wars actually governments one single government

  • may not be able to do anything about a war

  • somewhere else but together they can

  • let's just start with because I think climate change

  • is very much in the news Dominique De Villepin

  • you're sense of how important that will be as an issue for

  • governments to be successful going forth in the way

  • - they deal with it - I believe that there's a growing

  • awareness of how important it is because we see everywhere

  • in the plant the consequences unfortunately for very poor countries

  • countries like Bangladesh، Maldives they are facing huge challenges

  • but in every country the U.S، in Europe، we see

  • every day the consequences of climate change

  • so I believe there's a growing awareness، cop 21 in Paris

  • was an important momentum of this awareness

  • but there's so much to be done and the problem is how

  • are we going to be organized in a way to have foot full agreements

  • and to keep the promises that are being made today

  • for that we need objectives very clear objectives

  • each country has to contribute everyone has to be part

  • of the adventure، rich country less rich country، and poor countries

  • because that's really something that's going

  • to help understand that we have only one planet

  • and we can't change this planet so this is a link between countries

  • it is also a link between generations and I believe that

  • young people today are very much aware

  • - of the consequences of climate change - Provide us some solutions

  • Well I would go at two levels strategically at the national level

  • for any government it should start by positioning

  • it's economy within the context of the global economy

  • to discover the competitive edge for that economy

  • the moment it discovers that competitive edge

  • it has an identity for that economy the moment that has been done

  • all the other sub systems should be reconstructed

  • re-engineering، for instance education، we have moved

  • drastically from axis to knowledge to the management of knowledge

  • and today there isn't a single university not only in the region، world wide

  • that teaches management of knowledge for any government today

  • five skills are very much needed management of complexity

  • management of creativity and innovation management of uncertainty

  • management of flow of information and management of diversity

  • - so it's raise your hands - if humans beings yes it is

  • - I have to go - because I feel the human being

  • Is the most resource besides what you're talking about

  • we mentioned we focused on the young people

  • particularly، this new generation of young people،

  • has a lot more potential than we ever had before

  • because of the access to technology a five year old today

  • is more technologically oriented than a 50 year old

  • and this will get more and more like that، so there will be mismatch

  • between the government and the young generation

  • one of the most important solutions is connecting hearts and minds

  • this is the theme of Dubai expo 2020 this is one of the most difficult goals

  • for any government when I was prime minister

  • I wanted to push innovation in france because I knew we have a lot

  • of capabilities، a lot of good companies

  • a lot of good universities but they weren't connected together

  • so I invented a concept which were centers of competiveness

  • all over France، every region every small region was having a center

  • in which companies were connected with universities

  • with experts and everybody working together، young students

  • innovative ideas، so all the country was participating

  • to one، one big goal and I think at the end of the day

  • what makes a young person stay in his country،

  • or comeback to his country، is being proud of being a citizen

  • of this country، being aware of the importance

  • of participating that's why I believe leadership

  • is so important leadership is just trying to find

  • two، three، four، five objectives which are going to be shared by

  • a whole population and which is going to make them

  • - pride to be part of - we'll be remiss if we didn't talk about

  • what is going on in this region particularly the problems of Syria

  • the problems of Libya، Iraq problems of Yemen

  • the scourge that is ISIS so، it's a tough region at present

  • what do governments need to do here to ensure success in the face

  • - of such challenges - first of all I would argue