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  • ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY,

  • WELCOME BACK TO OUR QUARANNIVERSARY SPECIAL HERE AT

  • "A LATE SHOW."

  • LET'S SAY HELLO TO A MAN I'VE MISSED FOR A YEAR, JON BATISTE.

  • HELLO, JON.

  • >> Jon: HELLO, YINDEED, STEPHEN, HOW ARE YOU FEELING?

  • >> Stephen: YOU KNOW WHAT, HOPEFUL.

  • I'M HOPEFUL, WHICH IS A DANGEROUS FEELING BECAUSE YOU

  • DON'T WANT TO GET BURNED, BUT I MEAN, THINGS ARE LOOKING UP.

  • EVIDENTLY, ALL ADULTS ELIGIBLE FOR SHOTS BY THE TIME WE GET TO

  • MAY, STARTING MAY 1-- AM I RIGHT WITH THAT?

  • IS THAT WHAT BIDEN SAID LAST NIGHT?

  • THAT'S GOT TO GIVE YOU A LITTLEERATE OF HOPE RIGHT THERE.

  • I'M TRYING TO LOOK ON THE THE BRIGHT SIDE.

  • >> Jon: PULL YOURSELF UP ON THE ROPE OF YOUR HOPE.

  • COME ON.

  • LET'S GET IT.

  • >> Stephen: I-- I'M JUST WONDERING IF THERE'S ANYTHING

  • ABOUT THIS ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATING YEAR THAT WE'VE JUST

  • GONE THROUGH, IS THERE ANYTHING OUT OF IT THAT WAS A POSITIVE

  • FOR YOU IN YOUR OWN LIFE?

  • >> Jon: I THINK FACING THE INTERNAL, THE THINGS THAT IN OUR

  • BUSY LIVES WE MAY NOT GET A CHANCE TO SIT AND DEAL WITH.

  • WE'RE FORCED TO DEAL WITH THEM IN THIS TIMES.

  • I THINK THAT'S A POSITIVE, ACTUALLY.

  • >> Stephen: THAT OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE STOCK?

  • >> Jon: YUP, YUP, YUP.

  • AND BE WITH THOSE-- IF WE WERE TRAPPED WITH THOSE WE LOVE, IT'S

  • ALSO A PLUS, AND I WAS.

  • SO THAT'S A GOOD THING.

  • >> Stephen: THAT'S TRUE.

  • AND YOU DID IT WITHOUT DRINKING ( LAUGHS )

  • >> Jon: THAT'S RIGHT.

  • >> Stephen: THAT'S DARE-- THAT'S DAREDEVIL BEHAVIOR IN MY

  • OPINION.

  • GOOD FOR YOU.

  • GOOD FOR YOU, EVILICA NEVELE.

  • >> Jon: HEY, RIDE THEM!

  • >> Stephen: DO YOU HAVE ANY HOPEFUL MUSIC FOR US TONIGHT?

  • >> Jon: YES, YES, LET'S SEE.

  • ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Stephen: THANK YOU, JON.

  • JON BATISTE, EVERYBODY.

  • THE.

  • >> Jon: YES, INDEED.

  • >> Stephen: MY GUEST TONIGHT IS THE CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO

  • THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE VOICE OF REASON WHO GUIDED US THROUGH THE

  • PAST YEAR.

  • PLEASE WELCOME TO "A LATE SHOW, DR. ANTHONY FAUCI.

  • DR. FAUCI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

  • >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, STEPHEN.

  • I APPRECIATE IT.

  • >> Stephen: I'VE WANTED TO HAVE YOU ON FOR A YEAR.

  • WE'VE TRIED TO HAVE YOU ON ALMOST EVERY WEEK FOR A YEAR.

  • WE COULD NEVER GET YOU.

  • AROUND JANUARY 20, YOUR SCHEDULE REALLY OPENED UP.

  • WHAT CHANGED?

  • ( LAUGHS ) >> EVERYTHING.

  • >> Stephen: GOOD.

  • I HOPE IT KEEPS CHANGING.

  • NOW, I'VE GOT A LOT I WANT TO ASK YOU, BUT THE FIRST THING I

  • HAVE TO ASK YOU IS ABOUT WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN ANNOUNCED LAST

  • NIGHT, IS THAT BY MAY 1, ALL ADULTS IN THE UNITED STATES WILL

  • BE ELIGIBLE FOR COVID-19 VACCINES.

  • HOW-- HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT SO QUICKLY?

  • THAT'S MUCH SOONER THAN WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE.

  • >> WELL, WHAT, AS YOU PROBABLY HAVE NOTICED OVER THE LAST

  • COUPLE OF WEEKS, THERE HAS BEEN A REAL CONCERTED EFFORT TO GET

  • MORE VACCINES AVAILABLE, FOR SIGNING CONTRACTSs, FOR

  • EXAMPLE, WITH MODERNA AND PFIZER TO GET AN ADDITIONAL 100 MILLION

  • DOSES A PIECE FROM THEM, TO GET A TOTAL OF 600 MILLION DOSES.

  • J&J, WHICH WE ORIGINALLY CONTRACT FOR, FOR 100 MILLION

  • DOSES, A DEAL WAS MADE FOR, YET AGAIN, ANOTHER 100 MILLION

  • DOSES.

  • SO IT WAS A QUESTION OF REALLY MAKING A FULL-COURT PRESS TO GET

  • MORE VACCINE AVAILABLE.

  • AND AS YOU DO, YOU GET THROUGH THE PRIORITIES SO THAT YOU GET

  • TO A POINT WHERE YOU REALLY HAVE ENOUGH TO GIVE TO EVERYONE.

  • AND THAT PUSHED IT BACK BY A COUPLE OF MONTHS, WHICH IS

  • REALLY GOOD NEWS, WHICH MEANS WE LIKELY WILL HAVE THE

  • OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION VACCINATED MUCH, MUCH

  • SOONER THAN WE ORIGINALLY HAD PLANNED.

  • >> Stephen: ONE OF THE CHANGES FROM THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION

  • TO THIS ONE IS A SENSE OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY HAS

  • A LARGE ROLE TO PLAY IN COORDINATING HERE.

  • IS THAT PART OF IT, THE FACT THAT THE-- PRESIDENT BIDEN IS--

  • IS STATING THAT ELIGIBILITY FOR ADULTS WILL START MAY 1.

  • IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TAKING A LARGER ROLE IN DISTRIBUTION

  • AND ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS?

  • >> IN EVERY ASPECT OF THE ENDEAVOR, STEPHEN, IS THAT

  • BEFORE, EARLIER, IN THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION, A LOT OF

  • DISCRETION, A LOT OF AUTHORITY, A LOT OF DECISION MAKING WAS

  • LEFT TO THE STATES THEMSELVES, WHICH THERE STILL IS A LOT OF

  • THAT, TOO.

  • BECAUSE THE STATES INDEPENDENTLY ARE VERY IMPORTANT IN THE

  • IMPLEMENTATION.

  • YOU DON'T WANT TO BE TELLING THEM EVERYTHING TO DO.

  • BUT WHAT WE HAVE MORE NOW IS A COOPERATION, COLLABORATION, AND

  • WHAT I WOULD CALL A SINNER GEE BETWEEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

  • AND THE STATES TO GET THINGS DONE.

  • AND THAT IS REALLY, I THINK, VERY GOOD NEWS.

  • I HAVE ALWAYS FELT THROUGHOUT THE PREVIOUS YEAR THAT THERE

  • SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE INTERACTION IN THE SENSE OF SIN

  • JIEZING, INSTEAD OF SAYING HERE'S WHAT YOU DO AND GO DO IT.

  • IF YOU SUCCEED, FINE.

  • IF YOU FAIL THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM, WHICH IS NOT, I THINK, THE BEST

  • WAY TO DO IT.

  • >> Stephen: NOW, FOR A YEAR NOW, YOU HAVE BEEN ADVISING US

  • WHAT TO DO.

  • CAN YOU ADVISE US HOW TO FEEL?

  • BECAUSE I MEAN, THERE'S A-- THERE'S A CHANGE IN THE AIR.

  • THERE REALLY IS.

  • AS I WAS SAYING TO JON BATISTE EARLIER EOH, THERE'S A SENSE OF

  • HOPE OUT THERE, AND WE DON'T WANT TO GET BURNED.

  • CAN WE BE HOPEFUL THAT THIS IS GOING TO COME TO AN END SOON?

  • >> YES.

  • NOT ONLY HOPEFUL, YOU CAN BE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THAT THIS IS

  • GOING TO END, AND WE WILL GET BACK TO NORMAL.

  • THE QUESTION IS WHEN?

  • AND I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING ON NOW,

  • PARTICULARLY WITH THE AVAILABILITY OF MULTIPLE, HIGHLY

  • EFFICACIOUS VACCINES THAT ARE SAFE AT THE SAME TIME THEY'RE

  • HIGHLY EFFICACIOUS, IF WE DO THAT TOGETHER WITH A GRAL

  • DIMINUTION OF THE STRINJENCEY OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURES-- YOU

  • DON'T WANT TO TURN THE SWITCH ON AND OFF AND SAY, OKAY, WE'RE

  • DOING WELL.

  • LET'S STOP EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE DOING REGARDING PUBLIC HEALTH.

  • WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT -- >> Stephen: BUT THAT'S

  • HAPPENING.

  • >> YES IT IS.

  • >> Stephen: ALL OVER THE COUNTRY IN VARIOUS STATES.

  • PEOPLE ARE GOING, "OKAY!

  • EVERYBODY BACK IN THE POOL."

  • LIKE WHAT-- WHAT IS THE CALMEST WAY YOU COULD SPEAK TO THE

  • STATES THAT DECIDED IT'S OVER, AT LEAST THERE'S NOTHING MORE TO

  • BE DONE ON THEIR END IN TERMS OF MITIGATION-- MITIGATING THE

  • SPREAD?

  • >> WELL, I'VE SAID THAT PUBLICLY MANY TIMES, ALMOST ON A DAILY

  • BASIS, STEPHEN, IS THAT IT IS REALLY RISKY.

  • RIGHT NOW, EVEN THOUGH THE CASES ARE COMING DOWN IN A VERY SHARP

  • DECLINE, OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, IT STARTED TO PLATEAU A

  • BIT.

  • AND IT IT PLATEAUS, IT'S PLATEAUING AT AN UNACCEPTABLE

  • HIGH LEVEL-- ABOUT 50,000 TO 60,000 NEW INFECTIONS PER DAY.

  • AND EVERY TIME WE'VE SEEN A PLATEAU AT THAT LEVEL, THERE'S

  • ALWAYS BEEN THE RISK OF GETTING YET AGAIN ANOTHER SURGE.

  • AND WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO DO IS GET ANOTHER SURGE.

  • WE WANT TO KEEP IT COMING DOWN-- IT MAY NOT BE AS SHARP AS IT HAS

  • BEEN OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS OR SO, BUT IF-- A MONTH

  • OR TWO.

  • IF WE CAN GET IT TO COME AND CONTINUE TO GO DOWN, AS WE GET

  • MORE AND MORE PEOPLE VACCINATED, EVERY DAY OVER TWO MILLION

  • PEOPLE ARE BEING VACCINATED.

  • IF WE KEEP DOING THAT, AT THE SAME TIME AS WE KEEP A CERTAIN

  • AMOUNT OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURES GOING, SUCH AS EVERYONE

  • CONTINUING TO WEAR A MASK AND NOT JUST SAYING, "HEY, THINGS

  • LOOK GOOD.

  • LET'S JUST GO RIGHT BACK TO WHERE WE THINK WE SHOULD BE,"

  • WHICH EVERYONE IS EMPATHETIC WITH THAT NEED TO START TO GET

  • BACK TO NORMAL.

  • EVERYBODY WANTS TO DO THAT.

  • EVERYBODY WANTS TO GET ALL THE KIDS BACK TO SCHOOL.

  • EVERYBODY WANTS TO GET BACK TO WORK IN THE WORKPLACE AND NOT BE

  • WORKING FROM HOME SO THAT YOU CAN GET THE ECONOMY GOING.

  • IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, STEPHEN.

  • IT IS, GUARANTEED, IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

  • BUT WE'VE GOT TO DO IT PRUDENTLY AND CAREFULLY.

  • >> Stephen: NOW, I HAVE BEEN A FAN OF YOURS SINCE BEFORE IT WAS

  • COOL BECAUSE I INTERVIEWED YOU ALMOST EXACTLY 10 YEARS AGO.

  • IT WAS IN MARCH OF 2011, AND I WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS

  • CLIP.

  • JIM.

  • WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE NEXT BIG, YOU KNOW, HOT NEW DISEASE?

  • WE HAVE SARS, WE HAD SWINE FLU.

  • AND WE HAD BIRD FLU.

  • AND I WANT TO GET MY GRAPHICS DEPARTMENT WORKING ON THE NEXT

  • THING THAT'S GOING TO SCARE THE POOP OUT OF THESE PEOPLE.

  • TURKEY HERPES.

  • WHAT'S IT GOING TO BE?

  • >> THE INTERESTING THING IS WE DON'T KNOW.

  • THERE IS ALWAYS A THREAT OF EMERGING AND RE-EMERGING

  • INFECTIONS.

  • AND ONE OF THE FEARS WE FACE IS NATURE IS THE WORST IN THAT

  • RESPECT.

  • IT COMES OUT OF NOWHERE, A LOT OF TIMES JUMPING SPECIES FROM

  • ANIMALS TO HUMANS.

  • >> Stephen: I KNOW ANIMALS ARE DANGEROUS.

  • THAT'S WHY I BELIEVE IN POLLUTION.

  • HIT THEM FIRST UPON KILL OR BE KILLED.

  • NOW, HOW DID THE NIGHTMARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT COMPARE TO THE

  • REALITY OF COVID?

  • >> YOU KNOW, IT MATERIALIZED, STEPHEN, UNFORTUNATELY FOR ALL

  • OF US, YOU KNOW A CONTINUATION OF THAT CONVERSATION WOULD HAVE

  • BEEN MY WORST NIGHTMARE IS WHAT I INITIALLY HINTED AT IN MY

  • DISCUSSION WITH YOU IS A BRAND-NEW VIRAL INFECTION THAT

  • JUMPS SPECIES FROM AN ANIMAL RESERVOIR TO A HUMAN, THAT'S

  • RESPIRATORY BORNE, THAT HAS TWO FUNDAMENTAL CHARACTERISTICS --

  • ONE, IT SPREADS EXTRAORDINARILY EFFICIENTLY FROM HUMAN TO HUMAN.

  • AND, TWO, IT HAS THE CAPABILITY OF A HIGH DEGREE OF MORBIDITY

  • AND MORTALITY.

  • AND, UNFORTUNATELY FOR ALL OF US, THAT'S COVID-19, WITH

  • ALREADY A HALF A MILLION PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE DIED,

  • 525 MILLION, WITH 28 MILLION INFECTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN

  • DOCUMENTED.

  • >> Stephen: WELL, AS WE SHOWED, YOU'RE A-- A VOICE-- NOT

  • CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS, BUT CERTAINLY CRYING IN WHAT CAN BE

  • THE WILDERNESS OF POLITICS.

  • FOR YEARS OVER PREPARING FOR A PANDEMIC LIKE THIS.

  • WHAT HAS IT BEEN LIKE, AS A MAN OF SCIENCE, WHAT HAS IT BEEN

  • LIKE OVER THE PAST YEAR TO SEE FACTS, SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH,

  • SCIENTIFIC MEDICAL ADVICE POLITICIZED, RATHER THAN

  • UTILIZED?

  • >> WELL, IT'S BEEN VERY DISTRESSFUL.

  • AND IT'S IN MANY RESPECTS VERY PAINFUL, BECAUSE AS A PHYSICIAN,

  • A SCIENTIST, AND A PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIAL, WHEN YOU'RE DEALING

  • WITH A FORMIDABLE ENEMY-- IF YOU REALLY WANT TO MAKE IT

  • METAPHORIC-- THE ENEMY BEING THE VIRUS, THE ONE THING YOU NEED

  • SUNEED EVERYONE PULLING TOGETHER, REALIZING THAT THE

  • ENEMY IS THE VIRUS, NOT EACH OTHER.

  • AND THE WORST POSSIBLE THING-- AND I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING

  • LIKE IT BEFORE, STEPHEN.

  • I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN A NUMBER OF OUTBREAKS OVER THE 37 YEARS

  • THAT I'VE BEEN THE DIRECTOR OF THE INSTITUTE, AND I-- I'VE

  • NEVER SEEN A SITUATION WHERE THERE WAS SUCH INTENSE

  • DIVISIVENESS WHERE SIMPLE, COMMONSENSE, NO-BRAINER PUBLIC

  • HEALTH ISSUES TAKE ON A POLITICAL CONNOTATION.

  • IF YOU WEAR A MASK, YOU'RE ON THIS SIDE.

  • IF YOU DON'T WEAR A MASK, YOU'RE ON THAT SIDE.

  • IF YOU WANT TO CONGREGATE, YOU'RE ON THIS SIDE.

  • IF YOU DON'T WANT TO CONGREGATE, YOU'RE ON THE OTHER SIDE.

  • IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE BECAUSE THE VIRUS IS GOING TO DO

  • WHAT THE VIRUS IS GOING TO DO, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR

  • POLITICAL PERSUASION IS, REGARDLESS OF HOW DIVISIVE YOU

  • ARE.

  • AND THAT WAS EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING TO SEE THAT.

  • IT WAS NOT HELPFUL-- IN FACT, IT WAS QUITE HARMFUL.

  • >> Stephen: YOU'VE WORKED FOR SEVEN PRESIDENTS, SO IT'S NOT

  • THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU HAVE HAD TO DEAL WITH POLITICAL

  • CONSIDERATIONS, NOT OF YOUR OWN BUT FOR THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE

  • WORKING FOR.

  • I UNDERSTAND YOU'VE USED THE GODFATHER AS A MODEL OF

  • BEHAVIOR?

  • DO YOU GIVE PRESIDENTS AN OFFER THEY CAN'T REFUSE?

  • WHAT IS-- WHAT IS THIS GODFATHER MODEL?