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  • PLEASE WELCOME SECRETARY HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON.

  • >> THANK YOU, JAMES.

  • >> James: IT IS SO NICE TO SEE YOU.

  • IT IS LOVELY TO SEE YOU ANY DAY BUT PARTICULARLY TODAY WHERE IN

  • IS A LOT TO TALK ABOUT.

  • BUT FIRST OFF, HOW ARE YOU.

  • HOW IS EVERYONE IN THE FAMILY, ARE YOU ALL OKAY?

  • >> WE ARE ALL OKAY THANK YOU JAMES.

  • WE ARE SHELTERING NEXT TO EACH OTHER.

  • WE HAVE BEEN TOGETHER SINCE MID MARCH AND EVERYBODY IS STILL

  • ALIVE.

  • AND WE'RE ABLE TO GET THROUGH THE DAY, OUR DOGS ARE FINE,

  • EVERYTHING IS GOING ALL RIGHT.

  • >> James: GOOD, I'M THRILLED TO HEAR THAT.

  • NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT LAST NIGHT.

  • SO THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE BETWEEN VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN,

  • PRESIDENT TRUMP, SET THE SCENE FOR ME, WHAT IS DEBATE NIGHT

  • LIKE IN THE CLINTON HOUSEHOLD?

  • >> WELL FOR US LAST NIGHT IT WAS KIND EVER A DEPARTURE BECAUSE

  • WE'D DONE A LOT OF DEBATES BETWEEN THE TWO OF US.

  • AND YOU KNOW, WE NOW WERE OBSERVERS LIKE THE VAST MAJORITY

  • OF MACIALG WHO WAS WATCHING.

  • AND IT WAS NERVE-RACKING, JAMES.

  • OBVIOUSLY I'M DOING EVERYTHING I CAN TO HELP JOE BIDEN AND KAMALA

  • HARRIS TO WIN.

  • AND I DO HAVE THE UNIQUE EXPERIENCE OF HAVING SHARED A

  • DEBATE STAGE THREE TIMES WITH DONALD TRUMP.

  • AND I KNOW THAT HE WILL DO OR SAY ANYTHING AS WE SAW AGAIN

  • LAST NIGHT.

  • SO IRWAS WATCHING BUT EVERY SO OFTEN I WOULD KIND OF BE

  • CRINGING OR GO OH, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF DRAMATIC MOMENTS AND

  • THERE WERE A COUPLE OF TIMES I JUST HAD TO GET UP AND WALK

  • BECAUSE, YOU KNOW T IS VERY SAD TO THINK THAT WE'RE HAVING THE

  • MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN MAYBE OUR HISTORY COMING UP, AND THE

  • PRESIDENT ONE OF THE TWO CANDIDATES CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO

  • ANSWER THE QUESTION, TO PUT FORWARD ANY KIND OF A GENDA FOR

  • THE FUTURE, IT'S ALL INSULT AND ATTACKS AND BRAG DOSEIO, IT WAS

  • SAD, JAMES.

  • I MEAN IT WAS MADDENING AND SAD AT THE SAME TIME.

  • AND I JUST HEARD THAT THE DEBATE COMMISSION IS GOING TO HAVE TO

  • CHANGE THE RULES BECAUSE HE JUST WOULDN'T STOP INTERRUPTING.

  • I THOUGHT BIDEN KEPTS HIS COOL WHICH IS HARD.

  • KEPT STAIRING RIGHT AT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE INTO THOSE

  • CMERAS, INTO THOSE LIVING ROOMS TRYING TO SAY HERE IS WHAT HE

  • WOULD DO ABOUT COVID AND ABOUT THE ECONOMY AND ABOUT CLIMATE

  • CHANGE AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

  • SO I THOUGHT ON BALANCE YOU KNOW JOE DID FINE.

  • AND TRUMP DEMONSTRATED HOW OUT OF CONTROL HE IS AND I JUST

  • WORRY ABOUT WHAT THE NEXT MONTH IS GO BE TO BE LIKE.

  • >> WE ALL OF US ARE HAVING THOSE FEELINGS.

  • BUT HONESTLY HEARING YOU TALK ABOUT IT IS I THINK MAWKING

  • CERTAINLY A LOT OF US FEEL MUCH BETTER.

  • STUCK AROUND, MORE WITH SECRETARY CLINTON WHEN WE COME

  • BACK.

  • NOW SECRETARY CLINTON YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON ON EARTH WHOSE

  • FACED TRUMP ONE-ON-ONE APPROXIMATE IN A DEBATE.

  • I THINK WE ALL KNEW THAT THINGS WOULD GETS HEATED.

  • WHEN YOU WERE WATCHING JOE BIDEN WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE HIM

  • IN THOSE MOMENTS.

  • >> I ACTUALLY DID GIVE ADVICE TO THE CAMPAIGN, TO HIS DEBATE

  • TEAM, ITS WITH SOME OF THE VERY SAME PEOPLE THAT I WORKED WITH.

  • AND YOU CANNOT LET TRUMP KNOCK YOU OFF YOUR GAME.

  • NOW HE WILL AS WE SAW LAST NIGHT, AS WE SAW IN MY DEBATES

  • WITH HIM, TRY TO DOMINATE, TRY TO INTERRUPT, TRY TO CONTROL

  • WHATEVER THE TELEVISION IS.

  • AND SO YOU HAVE TO BE REALLY FOCUSED AND VERY DISCIPLINED

  • ABOUT NOT GETTING TOTALLY OFF THE RESERVATION ALL THE TIME

  • BECAUSE HE'LL ATTACK YOU IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR ANSWERING A

  • QUESTION, TOTALLY AGAINST THE RULES.

  • AND YOU WANT TO CONTINUE ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION BUT YOU

  • DON'T WANT TO LOOK LIKE YOU ARE AVOIDING HIS, I THOUGHT BIDEN

  • DID A GOOD JOB TRYING TO KEEP HIS BALANCE, IN THE FACE OF THAT

  • 90 MINION SLAWT.

  • I MEAN EVEN CHRIS WALLACE AS YOU KNOW IS ONE OF THE TOUGHEST

  • NEWSCASTERS.

  • CERTAINLY NO PUSHOVER.

  • AND HE WAS LIKE OVERWHELMED BY THE JUST FUSE LADGE OF INSULTS

  • AND INTERRUPTION THAT YOU HEARD FROM TRUMP.

  • IN FACT IT LOOKED LIKE THE DEBATE COMMISSION IS GOING TO

  • CHANGE THE RULES.

  • I DON'T KNOW WHETHER TRUMP WILL AVOID BY THEM BUT THEY WILL TRY

  • TO GIVE THE MODERATORS MORE CONTROL.

  • MAYBE THEY WILL HAVE A KILL SWITCH ON THE MIC.

  • MAYBE THEY WILL HAVE A BUTTON TO PUSH AND THE FLOOR DROPS OUT.

  • I DON'T KNOW, BUT SOMETHING.

  • >> James: SO MY WORRY WITH THE KILL SWITCH WITH KNOCKING

  • SOMEONE'S MICROPHONE IS YOU HAVE TO THEN KNOCK OUT JOE BIDEN'S

  • MICROPHONE WHICH GIVES DONALD TRUMP BASICALLY 2 MINUTES TO

  • JUST LIE.

  • AND UNLESS THE MODERATOR STEPS IN AND SAYS THAT ISN'T TRUE,

  • THAT IS FALSE, I WOULD LIKE THAT TO BE ON THE RECORD THAT WHAT

  • YOU VUS SAID IS A LIE, WHAT ITIVE GOES HIM IS THAT HE ALSO

  • THEN GETS TWO MINUTES OF ABSOLUTE FREEDOM TO JUST JUST

  • LIE ABOUT IT.

  • >> WELL, I KNEW HE WOULD LIE.

  • HE'S INCAPABLE OF NOT LYING.

  • HE HAS MADE HIS CAREER ON THE BASIS OF LIES ABOUT HIS WEALTH.

  • WE NOW KNOW ABSOLUTELY DEFINITIVELY SOMETHING THAT I

  • SAID BACK IN 2016, HE'S NOT AS RICH AS HE CLAIMS.

  • HE DOESN'T PAY INCOME TAX AND EVERYTHING ELSE WE'VE LEARNED.

  • SO LYING IS NOT JUST SECOND, IT'S FIRST NATURE TO DONALD

  • TRUMP.

  • AND WHAT IS SO REGRETTABLE IS MANY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE TEURNED

  • IN.

  • A LOT OF AMERICANS MADE UP ITS MIND BUT THERE STILL TRULY ARE

  • UNDECIDED PEOPLE, NOT JUST ABOUT WHO THEY WILL VOTE FOR BUT

  • WHETHER THEY WILL VOTE.

  • AND I THINK THAT IF THEY WERE TO WATCH THAT, AND JUST FEEL SO

  • ALIENATED FROM YOU KNOW, THE BEHAVIOR ON STAGE, YOU SEE IT AS

  • AN ASSAULT ON OUR ELECTION.

  • YOU SEE IT AS AN ASSAULT ON OUR DEMOCRACY, EVEN MORE THAN AN

  • ASSAULT ON JOE BIED ENAND I'M THE MODERATOR.

  • IT'S GOT TO BE TROUBLING AND DISCOURAGING TO MANY PEOPLE WHO

  • TUNED IN.

  • SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COMMISSION IS GOING TO COME UP

  • WITH, JAMES.

  • I DON'T KNOW WHAT TECHNIQUE THEY'RE GOING TO TRY.

  • IT REALLY TAKES A VERY TOUGH MINDED MODERATOR NOT TO BE

  • OVERRUN BY TRUMP'S CONSTANT BULLYING BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY

  • WHAT WE SAW LAST NIGHT.

  • WE SAW A MEAN BULLY WHO KNOWS HE'S LOSING AND IS GOING TO TAKE

  • EVERYBODY DOWN WITH HIM IF WE LET HIM.

  • SO I THINK THAT THE COMMISSION IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE CREATIVE

  • AND WHOEVER THE NEXT MODERATE CERTIFICATE IS GOING TO HAVE TO

  • BE WILLING TO ENFORCE WHATEVER THE NEW RULES ARE.

  • > I THOUGHT VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS AT HIS MOST EFFECTIVE

  • IN THE MOMENTS THAT HE CHOSE TO SPEAK DIRECTLY TO THE AMERICAN

  • PEOPLE, WHEN HE SAID IT'S NOT ABOUT MY FAMILY, IT'S NOT ABOUT

  • YOUR FAMILY, IT'S ABOUT YOUR FAMILY AND THAT IS WHAT IT IS

  • ABOUT AND HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THAT.

  • AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS LIKE HE WAS AT HIS MOST EFFECTIVE.

  • AND I FEEL LIKE IF HE CAN STICK TO THAT, IF HE CAN STICK TO THE

  • NOTION THAT HE IS OF THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE, THEN HIS MESSAGE

  • HAS A PURITY TO IT.

  • I MEAN YOU IS SPEAK THERE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HIS FINANCES, HIS

  • TAXES.

  • AND THEN EVEN NOW IN HIS PRESIDENCY, HIS LACK OF

  • LEADERSHIP IN THE RESPONSE TO THE COVID CRISIS, THERE ARE SO

  • MANY THINGS.

  • I FEEL LIKE WEEKLY ON THIS SHOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TENS OF

  • TIMES THAT HE HAS COME UP SHORT OR LIED.

  • WHY DO YOU THINK THAT NONE OF THESE REVELATION SEEM TO SWAY

  • HIS COMMITTED SUPPORT ERRED?

  • >> WELL, I THINK THAT HE HAS A HARD-CORE OF SUPPORT.

  • IT IS NOW IN THE LOW 40% RANGE.

  • AND THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO FOR A COMBINATION OF REASONS, JAMES,

  • ARE DRAWN TO A STYLE OF LEADERSHIP THAT IS BULLYING.

  • IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HOW THEY SEE THE WORLD AND THEIR

  • PLACE IN IT.

  • THEY ALSO FEEL LIKE HE'S ON THEIR SIDE WHEN IT COMES TO A

  • LOT OF THE CULTURAL ISSUES THAT UNFORTUNATELY HE HAS MADE VERY

  • DIVISIVE.

  • ONE OF THE WORST THINGS LAST NIGHT WAS TRUMP BASICALLY

  • REFUSING TO DENOUNCE WHITE SUPREMACY AND THEN GIVING A BIG

  • SHOUT OUT TO THE PROUD BOYS WHICH IS A GANG OF TOUGHS WHO ET

  • BOO UP PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY DISAGREE WITH THEM POLITICALLY.

  • AND IT IS ALL TOO REMINISCENT OF WHAT AUTHOR-- AUTHORITARIAN

  • LEADERS HAVE DONE IN OTHER COUNTRIES, SO WHEN TRUMP WAS

  • ASKED TO DISOWN THE PROUD BOYS, HE BASICALLY SAID OH, YOU KNOW,

  • YEAH, STAND BACK BUT STAND BY, AND ACCORDING TO THE ONLINE

  • MEDIA TODAY, YOU KNOW, THE PROUD BOYS FEEL LIKE THAT IS A, YOU

  • KNOW, GO SIGNAL FROM TRUMP.

  • SO THERE ARE SEGMENTS OF HIS BASE THAT A TRA ATTRACTED TO HIM

  • AND STAY WITH HIM FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS BUT I BELIEVE WHAT'S

  • HAPPENING AND WHAT THE POLLS CERTAINLY SUGGEST IS THAT A LOT

  • OF PEOPLE AND PARTICULARLY WOMEN WHO HAVE WATCHED THIS PRESIDENCY

  • AND PARTICULARLY WATCHED HIS FAILURE OF LEADERSHIP AROUND THE

  • CORONAVIRUS ARE NOT BOYING IT ANY MORE.

  • THE REALITY SHOW IS NO LONGER ENTERTAINING.

  • IT IS ABOUT TO BE CANCELLED IN TERMS OF THEIR VIEW.

  • AND THEIR VOTE.

  • AND SO PART OF WHAT BIDEN IS DOING IS REASSURING PEOPLE WHO

  • YOU KNOW MAYBE VOTED FOR HIM.

  • MAYBE VOTED THIRD PARTY.

  • MAYBE DIDN'T VOTE, THAT THEY CAN COME TOGETHER IN THIS ELECTION

  • AND NOT ONLY DEFEAT DONALD TRUMP BUT GET BACK TO LEADERSHIP THAT

  • CARES ABOUT THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES.

  • AND DOESN'T SEEK TO DIVIDE US THE WAY THAT TRUMP DOES.

  • >> James: SOMEONE TWEETED LAST NIGHT, THEY TWEETED THAT THEY

  • WERE POSITIVE YOU WOULD HAVE WANTED TO SAY WILL YOU SHUT UP,

  • MAN, TO TRUMP IN 2016.

  • AND YOU RESPONDED WITH, YOU HAVE NO IDEA.

  • >>, IS THAT TRUE, DID YOU WATCH IT GOING I WISH I COULD HAVE

  • TOLD HIM TO SHUT UP.

  • >> OH MY GOSH, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS I WISH I

  • COULD HAVE SAID OR SHOULD HAVE SAID BUT FOR A LOT OF REASONS,

  • MOSTLY BECAUSE I ACTUALLY THINK YOU KNOW UKSZ ARE KSZ IT WOULD

  • BE AM HAB YOU BE-- MUCH HARDER FOR A WOMAN TO GET AWAY WITH

  • THAT, I THINK JOE GOT SOME REAL CREDIT FOR BASICALLY SAYING WHAT

  • A LOT OF PEOPLE WANTED TO SAY TO TRUMP.

  • BUT I THINK IT IS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT, AT LEAST AT THIS

  • POINT IN OUR POLITICAL HISTORY, FOR A WOMAN TO SAY SOME OF THE

  • THINGS THAT I CERTAINLY THOUGHT.

  • >> James: NOW THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE KAMALA

  • HARRIS, SHE'S GOING TO DEBATE NEXT WEEK WITH VICE PRESIDENT

  • PENCE.

  • WHEN I SEE MIKE PENCE I SORT OF THINK I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF HE

  • LIKES DONALD TRUMP, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

  • LIKE DEEP DOWN, DEEP DEEP DOWN, I DON'T KNOW IF HE DOES.

  • I THOUGHT YOU CAN IMAGINE THE TWO OF THEM HAVING A

  • CONVERSATION.

  • YOU THINK WHAT CAN YOU POSSIBLY BE TALKING ABOUT.

  • LIKE YOU KNOW, ONE IS A MAN WHO IS IN-- WHO IS SAYS THAT HE IS A

  • DEEPLY RELIGIOUS QULISSIAN MAN AND THE OTHER MAN WON'T CONDEMN

  • WHITE SUPREMACY, NORMALLY THOSE TWO DON'T HAVE BREAKFAST

  • TOGETHER.

  • >> WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE HEARD OF PEOPLE WHO MAKE A DEAL

  • WITH THE DEVIL, HAVEN'T YOU.

  • PEOPLE WHO USE SOMEONE THAT THEY MAY NO RESPECT OR ADMIRE, BUT

  • WHO THEY BELIEVE IS GOING TO FURTHER THEIR AGENDA.

  • AND MIKE PENCE IS PART OF A VERY CONSERVATIVE PART OF THE

  • REPUBLICAN PARTY.

  • THAT HAS A VERY SPECIFIC CULTURAL AGENDA.

  • AND I THINK THEY'RE WILLING TO PUT UP WITH A LOT OF WHAT WE

  • WOULD ALL CONSIDER UNACCEPTABLE, INSULTING BEHAVIOR FOR TRUMP TO

  • JUST KEEP GIVING THEM WHAT THEY WANT.

  • I THINK THAT ST THE BEST EXPLANATION.

  • >> DOES IT WORRY YOU, IT WORRIES ME BECAUSE WHEN TRUMP TALKS

  • ABOUT A PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER SHOULD THE ELECTION NOT GO

  • HIS WAY AND HE SAYS WELL, WE'LL JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE AND

  • THOSE THINGS, DO YOU WORRY THAT IT IS GOING TO TAKE MEMBERS OF

  • THAT REPUBLICAN PARTY, IT'S GOING TO TAKE THE MITCH Mc--

  • McMCCONNELLS, MAKE PENCES AND TED CRUZ, THESE CHARACTERS WE

  • HAVE GOTTEN TO KNOW IN THE PAST FOUR YEARS AND YOU KNOW A LOT

  • LONGER.

  • DO WE LOOK AND SAY WHO HAS THE BACKBONE AND GUMP SLUN TO SAY

  • PRESIDENT TRUMP, IT'S OVER, WE HAVE TO GO AND THIS IS HOW YOU

  • DO IT.

  • >> I DON'T THINK ANY OF THEM WOULD DO THAT, JAMES.

  • I THINK THAT THEY HAVE ALL SOLD THEIR SOULS AND GIVEN AWAY TAIR

  • BACKBONES TO SUPPORT TRUMP, TO ENABLE HIM.

  • THEY DON'T SPEAK OUT WHEN HE DOES THINGS TO UNDERMINE OUR

  • INSTITUTIONS, OUR DEMOCRACY, THE RULE OF LAW.

  • I THINK THIS ELECTION REALLY COMES DOWN TO AN OVERWHELMING

  • TURNOUT OF VOTERS WHO SEND AS CLEAR A MESSAGE AS HAS EVER BEEN

  • SENT THAT DONALD TRUMP MUST GO.

  • WE NEED TO BE SURE THAT WE ARE HAVE A BIG TURNOUT PARTICULARLY

  • IN THE SO CALLED SWING STATES.