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  • ♪ ♪

  • ♪ >> STEPHEN: WELCOME BACK.

  • JOINING ME TONIGHT IS AN N.Y.U.

  • LAW PROFESSOR AND FORMER LEAD PROSECUTOR IN THE OFFICE OF

  • SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT MUELLER.

  • HE HAS JUST WRITTEN A BOOK ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION CALLED "WHERE

  • LAW ENDS."

  • PLEASE WELCOME, ANDREW WEISSMANN.

  • MR. WEISSMANN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

  • >> NICE TO BE HERE.

  • >> Stephen: WELL, WHERE DOES THE LAW END?

  • ( LAUGHTER ) >> OKAY, HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU

  • HAVE?

  • SO THAT TILE COMES FROM A JOHN LAW QUOTE, ENGLISH PHILOSOPHER.

  • >> Stephen: SURE.

  • BUT THE MAIN REASON FOR IT SEX PERSONSING WHAT I

  • EXPERIENCED FOR 22 MONTHS -- WHAT I EXPERIENCED FOR 22 MONTHS

  • INVESTIGATING THE PRESIDENT AND ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR.

  • >> Stephen: THIS IS ABWHERE THE LAW ENDS.

  • IS THE WHITE HOUSE ONE OF THEM?

  • >> THE WHITE HOUSE AND ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR PRESENTED A NUMBER

  • OF OBSTACLES TO OUR INVESTIGATION, ABSOLUTELY.

  • >> Stephen: A RECAP FOR THE PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT KNOW WHO YOU

  • ARE.

  • YOU WERE ONE TO HAVE THE LEAD PROSECUTORS FOR THE MUELLER

  • INVESTIGATION.

  • FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS WE HEARD MUELLER'S NAME JUST ABOUT EVERY

  • DAY.

  • NOT ALWAYS YOURS BUT SOMETIMES YOURS.

  • A COUPLE OF YEARS LATER, MUELLER, MUELLER, THE GUY WITH

  • THE RUSSIA THING.

  • RIGHT?

  • WHAT JOB W WERE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO.

  • >> ROD ROSENSTEIN APPOINTED ROBERT MUELLER AS SPECIAL

  • COUNSEL AND HE WAS SUPPOSED TO INVESTIGATE WHAT RUSSIA DID IN

  • TERMS OF INTERFERING WITH OUR ELECTION AND WHETHER THERE WAS

  • ANYBODY IN THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN WHO PARTICIPATED IN THAT AND

  • ALSO WHETHER THE PRESIDENT OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE.

  • >> Stephen: OKAY.

  • NOW, EARLY IN TE BOOK, YOU WRITE, QUOTE, AS PROUD AS I AM

  • OF THE WORK OUR TEAM DID, WE COULD HAVE DONE MORE.

  • WHAT MORE COULD YOU HAVE DONE, AND IF YOU COULD HAVE DONE IT,

  • WHY DIDN'T YOU DO IT?

  • >> TIMELY QUESTION BECAUSE WE ALL ARE READING THE "NEW YORK

  • TIMES" AND HEARING ABOUT FINISH NANCE -- ABOUT FINANCES OF THE

  • PRESIDENT, AND THAT'S AN AREA WHERE IT'S A LONG, COMPLICATED

  • STORY, BUT IT WIL -- BUT ULTIMAT WE DID NOT DO A FULL

  • INVESTIGATION OF THE PRESIDENT'S FINANCES AND THERE ARE A LOT OF

  • UNANSWERED QUESTIONS THERE.

  • >> Stephen: WHO DID HE OWE $420 MILLION TO?

  • WOULDN'T THAT HAVE BEEN HANDY, TO ASK THAT QUESTION?

  • >> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

  • BUT HERE'S PARTLY THE REASON THERE WAS A DECISION NOT TO GO

  • THERE, AND THIS IS PRETTY TELLING, WHICH IS THE WHITE

  • HOUSE CALLED UP AND SAID ARE YOU LOOKING INTO THE FINANCES?

  • THAT'S A RED LINE.

  • AND THE DECISION THE SPECIAL COUNSEL HAD TO MADE EARLY IN THE

  • INVESTIGATION WAS DO YOU PUT THAT ASIDE FOR NOW AND PURSUE

  • THE INVESTIGATION INTO OTHER THINGS, WHICH WAS INCREDIBLY

  • SUCCESSFUL, OR DO YOU JUST RISK GETTING FIRED RIGHT AT THE

  • OUTSET?

  • >> Stephen: BUT, LISTEN, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HOW TO

  • RUN A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION OR A NATIONAL SECURITY

  • INVESTIGATION, BUT IF A GUY IS ACCUSED OF MURDER AND SAYS, HEY,

  • DON'T LOOK IN THE CRAWL SPACE, THAT IS CROSSING A RED LINE,

  • DOESN'T THAT TELL YOU THAT THAT'S WHERE THE BODY IS BURIED?

  • >> SO HUGE RED FLAG, AND WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW IS YOU KNOW

  • FROM THE "NEW YORK TIMES" THAT THERE'S A HUGE AMOUNT OF

  • UNEXPLAINED DEBT, AND YOU KNOW THAT THE WHITE HOUSE HAS SAID I

  • DON'T WANT ANYONE INVESTIGATING IT.

  • AND YOU KNOW ONE MORE THING WHICH IS THEY'RE FIGHTING LIKE

  • CRAZY NOT TO TURN OVER ACCOUNTING RECORDS.

  • SO THIS SEEMS TO BE AS AN INVESTIGATOR, YOU KNOW, MY MY AN

  • ANTENNAE ARE UP.

  • >> Stephen: I ASSUME THEY MUST HAVE BEEN UP WHEN THEY SAID

  • THAT'S A RED LINE.

  • DID YOU GUYS BUTT HEADS OVER WHETHER YOU SHOULD, A, GO FOR

  • THE FINANCES AND, B, AS RESPECTABLY AS POSSIBLE HAUL THE

  • PRESIDENT IN BY THE SCRUFF OF THE NECK AND PUT HIS HAND ON A

  • LITTLE BLACK BOOK AND SAY DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH?

  • >> ONE OF BOB MUELLER'S LINES IS WE'RE HERE TO DEFEND DEMOCRACY,

  • NOT TO PRACTICE IT.

  • HE WOULD HEAR FROM EVERYBODY BUT THEN HE MADE THE JUDGMENT CALLS

  • ABOUT WHAT TO DO.

  • >> Stephen: OH, OKAY.

  • S THE DEMOCRACY THAT THEY'RE NOT PRACTICING IS THAT THE

  • SPECIAL COUNSEL'S OFFICE IS NOT A DEBATING SOCIETY, HE ACTUALLY

  • JUST GETS TO MAKE THE DECISION AT THE END OF THE DAY.

  • >> EXACTLY.

  • >> Stephen: WAS IT ALL JUST IF WE PUSH TOO FAR HE'LL KILL THE

  • INVESTIGATION?

  • >> THERE WAS THAT.

  • THAT WAS A PIECE OF IT.

  • THERE WAS A CONCERN -- I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE MAIN PIECE

  • OF IT IS DOING THAT, AND THEN THERE'S A CONCERN OF NO GETTING

  • INTO -- NOT GETTING INTO A PROTRACTED LEGAL FIGHT THAT

  • COULD TAKE YEARS BECAUSE, AS YOU'VE SEEN, THE PRESIDENT IS

  • QUITE LITIGIOUS.

  • >> Stephen: RIGHT.

  • IN RETROSPECT, HOW MUCH DID THAT TAKE THE TEETH OUT OF THE

  • INVESTIGATION IF, AS YOU GOT CLOSER TO THINGS THAT YOU

  • THOUGHT PERHAPS HAD SOME INFORMATION THAT YOU NEEDED, YOU

  • HAD TO BACK AWAY BECAUSE THE GUY YOU WERE INVESTIGATING COULD

  • STOP YOU FROM DOING SO?

  • IT JUST SEEMS LIKE AN ODD INVESTIGATION, THOUGH, DOESN'T

  • GET TO FOLLOW THE FACTS.

  • >> SO I TOTALLY AGREE.

  • TWO THINGS THAT ARE REALLY WORTH NOTING THAT MAKE THIS SO

  • DIFFERENT THAN WHEN I INVESTIGATED ENRON OR EVEN

  • ORGANIZED CRIME WHICH IS THAT THE PERSON THAT WE WERE

  • INVESTIGATING HAD THE POWER TO FIRE US, AND THEY ALSO HAVE THE

  • POWER TO PARDON PEOPLE, MEANING THAT IT WAS VERY HARD TO GET

  • PEOPLE TO COOPERATE BECAUSE HE COULD JUST DANGLE A PARDON THAT

  • WOULD DETER THEM.

  • BUT THE REASON I WROTE THE BOOK IS TO SORT OF LAY OUT THE ISSUES

  • AND ALSO THE DISAGREEMENTS INTERNALLY AS TO WHAT WE DID SO

  • THAT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE A SORT OF CANDID DISCUSSION ABOUT THE

  • INVESTIGATION AND ALSO THINK ABOUT IS THIS THE WAY WE WANT

  • THINGS TO WORK IN THE FUTURE.

  • >> Stephen: NOW, BOB MUELLER HAS RECENTLY PUSHED BACK NOT

  • VIOLENTLY, BUT HE HAS SAID -- I DON'T THINK HE CALLED YOU UP BY

  • NAME, BUT I THINK HE SAID THAT YOU WERE, QUOTE -- HMM, HMM,

  • HMM, HMM, HMM -- INCOMPLETE INFORMATION?

  • IS THAT WHAT HE DESCRIBED AS INCOMPLETE INFORMATION?

  • >> YEAH.

  • >> Stephen: DO YOU KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT?

  • WHAT YOU PERHAPS WERE NOT PRIVY TO?

  • >> WELL, OBVIOUSLY, IF IT'S SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW, BY

  • DEFINITION, I CAN'T SAY WHAT IT IS THAT I DON'T KNOW.

  • BUT IT'S CERTAINLY THE CASE THAT I CAN'T SAY THAT I KNOW

  • EVERYTHING.

  • BUT, YOU KNOW, I TRIED TO GIVE A TRUTHFUL, CANDID RECITATION OF

  • THE FACTS I DID KNOW.

  • >> Stephen: WHEN WE COME BACK, ANDREW WEISSMANN AND HIS TEAM'S

  • REACTION TO BILL BARR'S FOUR-PAGE SUMMARY OF THEIR

  • REPORT.

  • WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

  • ♪ ♪

♪ ♪

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    林宜悉 posted on 2020/10/27
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