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  • -We're back with Joy Reid.

  • Obviously, when something like this comes across your desk,

  • you're doing your job, and I appreciate that,

  • but does that throw you when you go,

  • "I have to talk about this"?

  • -Yeah, I mean, look, it's difficult.

  • You know, the...

  • I don't think it'll ever be more difficult

  • than it was when I had to do it for the first time

  • with the Trayvon Martin case

  • because my kids are his age,

  • you know, or the age that he would be.

  • And so, you know, there's the doing the job

  • and then there's the having to explain to your own children

  • when they're asking you, "Are we not important?"

  • Like, "Why?"

  • You know, I can remember my youngest son,

  • our youngest son asking,

  • you know, at the time that Trayvon Martin died,

  • and he was -- wow, he was 13 -- 13 or 14 --

  • I think he was 13,

  • and saying, "Why can people just kill us?"

  • And I didn't have an answer for that.

  • You know, and this wasn't even a cop, you know?

  • And when your child is asking you,

  • "How come people can just kill us?"

  • what are you supposed to say?

  • You know, I can't say, "People can't just kill you."

  • Because they can. Right?

  • I mean, between gun laws that are designed

  • to make it more possible to use your weapon --

  • You know, what's the point of being able

  • to have the Second Amendment and own weapons

  • if you can't use them and get away with it?

  • So, the gun laws are written to give incredible permission

  • and incredible latitude to gun owners

  • to go ahead and use it.

  • And then, if you triple and quadruple that,

  • that's what you get with police.

  • They have so much latitude to use force against us

  • any time they want

  • and can make any story and excuse they want,

  • and they almost always get away with it,

  • no matter what the facts are.

  • So, it's difficult to do the job

  • and then have to look at your own kids,

  • you know, who are now,

  • you know, young Millennials in their 20s,

  • and still not be able to say,

  • "No, police can't just kill you,"

  • because, actually, kind of they can, you know?

  • So it's tough.

  • -I mean, what is it gonna take for someone to go,

  • "Hey, let's train police better"?

  • It should be common sense.

  • -Well, I mean, and people have to understand -- you know,

  • I have a lot of friends that are police, you know?

  • I don't have anything against police.

  • I have friends who are police.

  • My Godbrother's a retired NYPD, you know, detective sergeant,

  • and we have to understand

  • that the police are not trained to shoot you in the leg.

  • Like, "Why don't" -- People will say,

  • "Why don't you just shoot them in the leg?"

  • That's not how they're trained.

  • They're trained to stop the threat.

  • And stop the threat --

  • when they take their little test -- right? --

  • the test that they take in order to get certified

  • and get their badge,

  • it's, can you make a shot in the chest in the center mass,

  • and can you make a shot at the head?

  • They're not trained to shoot you in the arm

  • 'cause you could then still come at them with the other arm.

  • They're not trained to do that.

  • There is no extra training

  • that can make police stop shooting people in the head

  • or shooting people in the chest

  • 'cause that is the fundamentals of their training

  • in order to protect themselves, right?

  • If there is a real threat, they need to be able to stop it,

  • and stopping it doesn't mean shooting the threat in the knee.

  • And, so, that training, you know, question always comes up,

  • but it isn't really going to change anything.

  • What has to happen is that

  • the incentive structure for police has to change,

  • and even police officers will tell you this.

  • The incentive structure right now

  • is that, if you shoot someone,

  • the incentive is to get your story together -- right? --

  • your union's gonna back you -- and say,

  • "I'd perceived this person as a threat.

  • I thought they had a gun. I feared for my life."

  • Say the magic words --

  • "Thought they had a gun, feared for my life" --

  • you're good.

  • And that's almost always gonna work

  • because prosecutors are on your side.

  • They're your partners -- you're partners together

  • in trying to solve crimes with the prosecutors.

  • So, this is almost always going to work,

  • and the unions know that.

  • So, the incentive structure -- how would it change?

  • Number one, don't let local prosecutors

  • who partner with police make the decision.

  • Let an outside entity look at these shootings and say,

  • "Let us decide whether this was fair."

  • That would be one thing.

  • Number two, people get mad about defund the police,

  • but it isn't about defunding them.

  • Of course there have to be police budgets,

  • and police deserve pensions -- they deserve good salaries.

  • We don't want them paid a pittance, right?

  • But you don't have to pay them to go and solve domestic cases

  • where you could send a social worker.

  • Why are we paying them, you know, to solve jaywalking?

  • Why are we paying them to do stuff

  • that someone else who doesn't have a gun could do?

  • I don't think you need someone with a gun

  • if two kids who are playing with their, you know, toy guns

  • and menacing each other or spraying water at each other

  • or spraying water on the neighbor.

  • If it's a black kid, that kid is likely to get shot

  • if the police come, you know?

  • I'm terrified to call the police on people

  • because I have to be prepared to see that person die,

  • and there have been cases where I think,

  • "Boy, I should call the police right now,"

  • but I'm too scared to

  • because I don't want this person, whoever it is --

  • if it's somebody who seems to be off, you know,

  • and they're walking around,

  • talking to themselves in the streets.

  • I would never call the police

  • 'cause I don't want to see that person get killed,

  • and I don't want to live with that.

  • So, we can't have a system where people like me, who --

  • you know, I've got a good job and a great family, great home,

  • and, you know, in theory,

  • I shouldn't be scared of the police.

  • I am terrified of them. -God.

  • -And if I'm scared of them,

  • imagine how the average, like, 17-year-old black kid feels.

  • You know?

  • So we have to change the structure.

  • We have to start paying other people

  • to solve some of these problems.

  • And the warrant structure --

  • why is any warrant being served at 12:30 in the morning

  • at a home where the suspect doesn't even live?

  • Can't you check and see that you already arrested him?

  • -Yeah.

  • -There should be more structure, not more training.

  • -Yeah, because someone could also say,

  • if you're a police officer,

  • it's more dangerous to go in at 12:30 than it is or...

  • It's just... -Yeah.

  • -It's saving their lives, as well.

  • -Absolutely. And, I mean, look,

  • police, you know -- it's a tough job.

  • It's not an easy job.

  • Police are being called upon

  • to essentially be America's babysitters, right?

  • -Yeah. I agree.

  • -So we're asking them to do stuff

  • that has nothing to do with solving crimes.

  • Police are really good

  • at solving crimes and finding criminals,

  • but we're saying do that, plus, babysit the whole society...

  • -Right. -...and go in --

  • when somebody's mad at their neighbor,

  • you go deal with that, you know? -Right.

  • If somebody's a little too drunk, go and deal with that.

  • They're in the Wendy's parking lot -- go get them.

  • Why is that a policeman's job?

  • And, so, we're asking them -- we're asking somebody with a gun

  • who's trained to shoot people in the chest and the head

  • to go solve somebody who's drunk on the corner.

  • That's insane, and, also, it's not safe for them.

  • They're dealing with situations where everybody's got guns.

  • So they're nervous, right?

  • Police come in nervous, and then you add in

  • the sort of unfortunate racial biases

  • where somebody who is white is more nervous

  • because somebody is black.

  • That's a whole social problem

  • that we can't solve with training.

  • So if you're nervous around black people

  • and then a black person fidgets,

  • that black person's gonna get shot.

  • So, I don't think training fixes this.

  • I think changing the whole incentive structure

  • around policing

  • and making it more of a professional sort of overhaul --

  • we need, like, an overhaul of the profession

  • more than we need training.

  • -I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us,

  • because I know you're very busy.

  • You're co-anchoring MSNBC's special "Decision 2020" coverage

  • on the first presidential debate

  • on Tuesday, September 29th... -Yeah.

  • -...coming up. -Yeah.

  • -I want to also mention you have a new podcast

  • all about Senator Kamala Harris

  • called "Kamala: Next in Line"... -Yeah.

  • -...podcast.

  • We need content.

  • We need something inspiring to listen to

  • like that right now.

  • -Yeah, no, it's fun.

  • And, I mean, Kamala Harris is such a fascinating figure.

  • I'm excited to have been included in that podcast.

  • So, yeah, it should be great.

  • -Thank you again for being here. I really appreciate this.

  • -Thank you, Jimmy.

  • Appreciate it. Always good to be here.

-We're back with Joy Reid.

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Joy Reid Is Afraid to Call the Police

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    林宜悉 posted on 2020/10/24
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