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  • -Hey, Senator Sanders. You look great.

  • Really good to see you again.

  • Thank you so much for being here.

  • -Thanks for having me, Jimmy.

  • -There's a lot to talk about.

  • First, I'd love to get your thoughts on last night's debate.

  • -Well, what I think is that

  • it was certainly not as crazy a debate as the first debate.

  • -Yeah. -But I continue to be astounded

  • by the degree to which Donald Trump lies --

  • just lies and lies and lies --

  • not only his lies,

  • his downplaying of this terrible pandemic from Day One

  • is just astounding to me.

  • And I hope the American people understand that

  • because of his irresponsibility,

  • because of his rejection of science,

  • his attacks on Dr. Fauci,

  • that tens of thousands of people have died unnecessarily.

  • -One of the things I admired about you

  • is that you endorsed Vice President Biden,

  • although you don't agree with him on every issue.

  • I just think that sends a --

  • what -- what message are you sending there?

  • -Well, the message is that -- let me be very frank --

  • and not everybody will agree with me,

  • but I think that Donald Trump is the most dangerous president

  • in the modern history of this country,

  • and it's not just because he lies all the time.

  • It's not just because he doesn't believe in science.

  • It's not just because

  • he's a racist or a sexist or a homophobe or a xenophobe,

  • it is because he is quite intentionally

  • trying to undermine American democracy,

  • trying to suppress the vote.

  • We are a democratic society.

  • People have fought and died to defend our democracy,

  • and we cannot re-elect the president

  • who does not believe in the rule of law,

  • our Constitution, or, in fact, our democracy.

  • I have known Joe for many, many years.

  • He is a very decent guy. As you have indicated,

  • he and I have differences of opinions on a number of issues.

  • But I can vouch for his decency

  • and his belief in the rule of law and democracy.

  • -When was the first time -- do you remember

  • meeting Joe Biden, Vice President?

  • -Oh, I do. You know, he was a senator, and I was a senator.

  • He was around for a very long time.

  • I was new.

  • And the thing I think

  • that people will learn bout Joe Biden --

  • he is a very, very down-to-earth guy.

  • My wife remembers the first time that she met him,

  • and she never, you know, talked to him at all.

  • He sat down, and he chatted with her about Ireland --

  • their families both come from Ireland.

  • -Yeah. -Very -- Very human guy.

  • A very empathetic guy.

  • -Although the election is November 3rd,

  • and it's been said that we won't know the results

  • until days later,

  • when do you think we'll know the results?

  • -Jimmy, you raise an important point,

  • and I hope the American people understand it,

  • because this is something I worry about.

  • My view is every vote must be counted.

  • For reasons which I don't have the time to get into tonight,

  • you're going to have a situation, I suspect,

  • in states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin,

  • other states,

  • where they are going to be receiving

  • huge amounts of mail-in ballots.

  • And unlike states like Florida or Vermont,

  • they're not able, for bad reasons,

  • to begin processing those ballots until --

  • I don't know -- Election Day or maybe when the polls close.

  • That means you're going to have states

  • dealing with perhaps millions of mail-in ballots.

  • Here is my worry.

  • What polls show,

  • and what studies have shown is that, for whatever reason,

  • Democrats are more likely to use mail-in ballots.

  • Republicans are more likely to walk into polling booths

  • on Election Day.

  • It is likely that the first votes that will be counted

  • will be those people who came in on Election Day,

  • which will be Republican.

  • And here is the fear --

  • and I hope everybody hears it --

  • it could well be -- you know,

  • I don't know what's going to happen -- nobody does.

  • But it could well be that, at 10:00 on election night,

  • Trump is winning in Michigan, he's winning in Pennsylvania,

  • he's winning in Wisconsin,

  • and he gets on the television and he says,

  • "Thank you, Americans, for re-electing me.

  • It's all over. Have a good day."

  • But then, the next day and the day following,

  • all of those mail-in ballots start getting counted,

  • and it turns out that Biden has won those states.

  • At which point Trump says,

  • "See? I told whole thing was fraudulent.

  • I told you those mail-in ballots were crooked.

  • And I got -- you know, we're not going to leave office."

  • So that is a worry that I and a lot of people have.

  • So, the results -- you know, we don't know what's happened.

  • -Sure. -Maybe the results will be known

  • on election night.

  • But people should be aware of that possibility.

  • -I know that you have been working

  • with people running in Texas.

  • Why is Texas important now?

  • I feel like a lot of people are highlighting Texas.

  • -I think that Texas may be -- in many ways,

  • Texas is the future of progressive politics in America.

  • Historically, because there has been a lot of voter suppression,

  • Texas is one of the states

  • where their Republican state government has,

  • for a long time,

  • tried to make it as difficult as possible for people to vote.

  • But you have folks over there -- Beto O'Rourke and others

  • are doing a great job registering people,

  • getting people to vote.

  • The bottom line is that if Texas becomes a blue state

  • and a progressive state, as I think it can --

  • it has a lot of young people.

  • It has a lot of Latinos, a lot of African-Americans.

  • It can become a progressive state.

  • And if that happens,

  • and if those 38 electoral votes go Democratic,

  • then we've changed the face of American politics.

  • -Wow. I think that would be --

  • that would be -- I mean, are people predicting that?

  • Or this is just your people?

  • -There's no question the trend is with us.

  • What we don't know is how it plays out this election.

  • And to those people out there who say,

  • "Oh, Texas is a conservative state" --

  • trust me, it is not.

  • You have some great, great progressive candidates

  • who are running for office who stand a great chance to win,

  • and the future is with progressive politics in Texas.

  • -It will be interesting to watch what happens in Texas.

  • Bernie Sanders, thank you so much for coming back to my show.

  • And give my best to the grandkids.

  • I know we always talk about them every time you're on.

  • And, God, you always smile every time I bring them up.

  • But I appreciate you coming back on the show.

  • It means a lot to me, so thank you.

  • Senator Bernie Sanders, everyone.

-Hey, Senator Sanders. You look great.

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Sen. Bernie Sanders Says Texas Can Change the Face of American Politics

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    林宜悉 posted on 2020/10/24
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