Subtitles section Play video
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Okay Joss, I want to start with an experiment where we swap TikTok login information
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to see just how different our feeds actually are.
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I don't know what it's going to reveal about me.
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I do wonder how different it's going to be.
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Nurse turns into a hot lady.
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OK so I just got literally the male version of that on yours. Look.
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Oh my god.
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Male nurse. Female nurse.
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Joss there are so many animals on yours.
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List of underrated horror movies.
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I would never get that.
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I've never seen this pushup challenge.
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Yeah, I think TikTok recognized that I would prefer a funny version of this.
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It recognized that I share a sense of humor with this person in Indonesia.
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TikTok's frictionless personalization is what made the app an instant success around the world.
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But now that global success is crashing into international politics, putting TikTok
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in the middle of a worldwide battle over how open the internet should be.
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"President Trump threatening to ban TikTok in the United States as Microsoft is hoping to acquire it."
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WEI: I think Chinese tech companies traditionally have really struggled to get a cultural foothold
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in the U.S. because the culture is just so different.
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That's Eugene Wei, a Tech Product Executive who has written about how Tiktok, which is
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owned by a company called ByteDance, became the first globally-successful Chinese app.
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How they did it all comes down to design.
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When you first open up TikTok, you don't have to follow anyone,
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or tell the app about your interests, or even choose what to watch.
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It shows you a video, and the only decision you have to make is how long you watch it.
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WEI: So if you look at the history of social media, most of the giants in social networking today
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started by having people essentially build up a social graph from the bottoms up.
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A social graph is the web of accounts you follow and it determines most of the content
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you see on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat.
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The problem with that approach is that it can feel like work: building up a social network
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takes time, you're not necessarily going to like every post from the accounts you follow,
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and it's hard to find accounts that you would like but don't know about.
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TikTok took a different approach. It bypasses the social graph, and instead builds an "interest graph,"
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by watching you interact with videos. TikTok isn't the first platform to do that--
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it's basically how YouTube works too -- but because TikTok videos are less than 60 seconds
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long, you watch more of them, which means more data.
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WEI: People talk about the TikTok algorithm as if it's some magic piece of software that
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is just miraculously better than every piece of software out there. But the truth is that
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it's not necessarily that the algorithms themselves have gotten that much better. But if you massively,
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massively increase the training data set that you train the algorithm on, you can achieve
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really amazing results. And that's why I think a lot of people will describe the algorithm
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as eerily accurate. Eerily personalized.
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TikTok's interest graph introduces you to
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like-minded people. And because the videos are often music or meme-based rather than
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language-based, you may find that some of those like-minded people live on the other
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side of the world. They might be a dancer in Nepal, a family
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in Mexico, or kids in the U.K, or this guy, as long as the algorithm predicts
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that it'll entertain you.
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WEI: And so in that way, the TikTok algorithm
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kind of allows ByteDance to gain traction in markets all over the world, with languages
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that they don't understand, subcultures they don't understand.
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TikTok's global appeal enabled it to reach a billion users faster than the other social
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media giants had. But it also set the app on a collision course with a different trend:
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the rise of internet nationalism. "India is banning TikTok and dozens of other
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Chinese apps." "Australia has cited concerns about national security. So too has South
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Korea." "President Trump issued executive orders that would ban TikTok and messaging
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app WeChat from operating in the US in 45 days."
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Bytedance is based in China, which means it's subject to surveillance by a regime known
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for censorship, human rights abuses, and cyber espionage.
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But TikTok says they have never provided any US user data to the Chinese government.
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For his part, President Trump has hinted that this is actually about getting revenge for
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the coronavirus. VAN SUSTEREN: Why would you ban it?
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TRUMP: Well, it's a big business. China -- look what happened with China with this virus,
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what they've done to this country and to the entire world is disgraceful.
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But whatever the motivation, the US targeting a globally popular app is a big deal -- because
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it throws a wrench into one of the biggest debates over what the internet should be.
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A New America Foundation report plots that debate along a spectrum-- of how open the
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internet is within a country. SHERMAN: So on the one pole, we can visualize
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the free and open model, so that's the democratic model, very little state involvement in Internet
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content. As the original home of the internet and many
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of the world's biggest tech companies, the US has traditionally advocated for the free
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flow of information online. SHERMAN: The opposite end of the spectrum
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is what we see in countries like China, where there is heavy state involvement in content,
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where they do go to Internet companies and say, you have to censor all of these keywords,
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you have to censor all these foreign websites.
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China's Great Firewall famously blocks sites
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like Google, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Wikipedia, Netflix, WhatsApp, and many western news outlets.
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But it's not just China anymore. SHERMAN: What we see in the middle are countries
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who I think are going to play a pivotal role going forward in this global scale tipping
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we see. According to analysts surveyed for this report,
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many of these countries shifted toward less openness between 2014 and 2018.
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In 2019 Russia moved to build an internet that is isolated from the rest of the world,
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following years of increasing government censorship. Turkey has been blocking some news websites
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and recently passed a law giving the government sweeping powers over social media.
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And India, the world's largest democracy, leads the world in deliberate Internet shutdowns.
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"Turning off the internet is becoming a defining tool of government repression." "Internet
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access shut down" "Imposed an internet blackout" "Ethiopia" "Liberia" "Venezuela" "Pakistan"
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"taken offline." As governments decide that a world wide web
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doesn't suit their interests, we end up with a fractured internet, what some call "the
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splinternet" where national borders increasingly dictate what information people can access
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online. Now it's up to democratic countries to reimagine
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an open internet worth fighting for. Instead, the US is threatening to ban a platform used
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by millions of Americans. SHERMAN: The US benefits from having technological
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leadership, it benefits from promoting a democratic Internet model and contesting authoritarianism.
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And so abdicating leadership on that front is not good in the own interests of the US either.
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TikTok created a uniquely international platform.
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But it emerged onto an internet that wasn't quite ready for it. It arrived in the midst
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of rising nationalism, from a country that has never respected internet freedom.
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So now it's forcing the issue: When authoritarian states assert control over online speech,
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should the US respond by doing the same thing?